Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Cybertron

One of the biggest issues in this game, is that the QBs are hardly ever off target. They should get way more incompletions from simply being off target. Incompletions come from either, WR dropping the ball or defender makes a play on the ball. The ball is never just off target.

Watch more of my S54 games.

My QB was off target a LOT.

If we're talking about buffing Pass Power we have to acknowledge that it indirectly nerfs Zone defense. They should be compensated at least somewhere for that. Making SAs like Zone Shark not require being in underneath coverage would be a nice change. Its kind of silly that the Safeties in a Zone defense have no Zone related SAs they can take.

Originally posted by ellix
If we're talking about buffing Pass Power we have to acknowledge that it indirectly nerfs Zone defense. They should be compensated at least somewhere for that. Making SAs like Zone Shark not require being in underneath coverage would be a nice change. Its kind of silly that the Safeties in a Zone defense have no Zone related SAs they can take.

"I THINK" cover 3 it fires? "I THINK" as long as a db is deeper than the player it counts as underneath

Originally posted by vipermaw82
"I THINK" cover 3 it fires? "I THINK" as long as a db is deeper than the player it counts as underneath

cover 3 yes it fires for the safety that drops down.

Zone Shark just doesn't fire enough with the current requirements to be all that viable... I don't even plan to use it this time because I felt like it was a waste the last few seasons. It needs its fire % chance increased from 30% to match Monster Hit's 50% and tbh, remove the underneath requirement...It would make Safeties much better for Zone with no requirement on the SA. It's not like Safeties couldn't use a SA just for them anyways and make them a bit more unique from other DBs.

................


I agree with the mention that Pass Accuracy needs looked at too... Currently it doesn't take much in the skill for a QB to be effective (about 50). GE is right that most of the pass incompletes come from drops & defenders breaking up the play.

Originally posted by Xars
Watch more of my S54 games.

My QB was off target a LOT.

Maybe due to that 9 acc

Originally posted by ellix
If we're talking about buffing Pass Power we have to acknowledge that it indirectly nerfs Zone defense. They should be compensated at least somewhere for that. Making SAs like Zone Shark not require being in underneath coverage would be a nice change. Its kind of silly that the Safeties in a Zone defense have no Zone related SAs they can take.

And remove EOTP as only firing for underneath zone.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar


I agree with the mention that Pass Accuracy needs looked at too... Currently it doesn't take much in the skill for a QB to be effective (about 50). GE is right that most of the pass incompletes come from drops & defenders breaking up the play.

Accuracy matters a lot and is very expensive. It's why people use OTR on their QBs so often. Not sure how many QBs are getting by in Vet with sub 50. Really can only see rushing QBs getting by with it.

Low accuracy means that pass rush pressure is going to make the QB throw "incomplete" uncatchable passes often. Which is more common than drops, and second to "unable to secure" in frequency

Originally posted by BoDiddley
Accuracy matters a lot and is very expensive. It's why people use OTR on their QBs so often. Not sure how many QBs are getting by in Vet with sub 50. Really can only see rushing QBs getting by with it.


Curious to see how Holieway will fare passing in Vet. His end build will have 30 acc and 14 power (but a ton of Tech and 51 consistency). He is passing pretty good right now for those skills.

Now if they jack with power, he might be screwed.

Originally posted by Cybertron
Curious to see how Holieway will fare passing in Vet. His end build will have 30 acc and 14 power (but a ton of Tech and 51 consistency). He is passing pretty good right now for those skills.

Now if they jack with power, he might be screwed.

I'm waiting to boost Freddy for the same reason lol. He'll be over the 50 acc benchmark, but still at 18 power right now.

Originally posted by BoDiddley
Accuracy matters a lot and is very expensive. It's why people use OTR on their QBs so often. Not sure how many QBs are getting by in Vet with sub 50. Really can only see rushing QBs getting by with it.

Low accuracy means that pass rush pressure is going to make the QB throw "incomplete" uncatchable passes often. Which is more common than drops, and second to "unable to secure" in frequency

Doesn't Toughness mitigate pressure from off the Pass Rush? I know DL for quite awhile would teach guys that 70 or some Pass Accuracy was all you needed, outside of that if you were not using OTR (like a pocket QB) I don't think you need more than 50 to avoid errant passes (though pressure might add a little more to this as you say). I know my QB at Soph the past few seasons had 50 Acc and still completed 60% of his passes and didn't use OTR at all, I mainly had him as a Pocket QB. Now at Vet I know this could change, but I have the feeling that if you made a pure pocket passer you just wouldn't need much accuracy.

I think Pass Power and Pass Accuracy both need looked at.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
Doesn't Toughness mitigate pressure from off the Pass Rush? I know DL for quite awhile would teach guys that 70 or some Pass Accuracy was all you needed, outside of that if you were not using OTR (like a pocket QB) I don't think you need more than 50 to avoid errant passes (though pressure might add a little more to this as you say). I know my QB at Soph the past few seasons had 50 Acc and still completed 60% of his passes and didn't use OTR at all, I mainly had him as a Pocket QB. Now at Vet I know this could change, but I have the feeling that if you made a pure pocket passer you just wouldn't need much accuracy.

I think Pass Power and Pass Accuracy both need looked at.
50 Acc at Soph is more than fine, because defenders have lower skills too. But what QB is throwing well at Vet with 50 Acc?

Case in point, Xar's QB threw for 60%...at Soph. But is sub-50% now in Vet.

51 30 107.1 1146 712 9905 62.1% 8.6 330.2 78 211 41 15 35 -38.5 -1.3 -1.1 0
52 30 89.7 1419 796 11341 56.1% 8 378 86 275 77 43 22 -22 -0.7 -1 0
53 30 86.3 879 481 7405 54.7% 8.4 246.8 53 132 25 35 42 -65.5 -2.2 -1.6 0
54 30 77.5 832 415 6200.5 49.9% 7.5 206.7 42 116 23 28 34 -48 -1.6 -1.4 0

Originally posted by Cybertron
And remove EOTP as only firing for underneath zone.

If Pass Power gets changed, I think this is a good suggestion. It would allow CB's to make up for the hit to LB's.


And even if not, Zone Shark needs fixed, it needs Gold SA to fire at 50% like MH and remove the Underneath requirement as well.

Originally posted by ellix
If we're talking about buffing Pass Power we have to acknowledge that it indirectly nerfs Zone defense. They should be compensated at least somewhere for that. Making SAs like Zone Shark not require being in underneath coverage would be a nice change. Its kind of silly that the Safeties in a Zone defense have no Zone related SAs they can take.

I'm sorry but this is lazy thinking. You are assuming that the current situation is the balanced point and thus want to keep that balance. However, if you're wrong about the current state (either under or over-performing) then you're just advocating for that to continue. Before saying Zone can't be nerfed, you need to explain and defend the current state - which you haven't done.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
If Pass Power gets changed, I think this is a good suggestion. It would allow CB's to make up for the hit to LB's.


This is along those same lines.

Guys, if you don't think Zone INT rates are too high - using formation & personnel packages that don't match the Offensive's scheme - then make the argument.

But you're complaining instead of making the case.

The argument isn't "well Zone sucked for so long don't make it bad again". The argument is that formations and personnel packages that don't match the Offensive schemes aren't being penalized enough for the current INT bonus. If you don't think the above is correct, then post some data and use some analysis.

Now the primary time where all this become apparent is the Pass Power Throwing Arc. Fixing that will probably lower Zone INTs - but we don't know. It may lower Zone and Man equally - again we don't know.

So let's just have the Devs fix it and find out.

Then we can work on balancing the overall effectiveness of Man = Zone and vice versa, but with different inputs.

Mayby tie arc of ball with pass tech ? If U got a good spiral ball will naturaly got arc. Wobbly passes are slower and they tend to float to much.

To boost zone against it mayby add some SA connected to deflecting for zone ? Let us specialize for deflections or ints.

Also pls add some zone plays that match trips and 3 wr spread for zone.