Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
If by game logic and design Man is better vs the Run (while still being solid vs the pass) and Zone was made to be good vs the pass while being subpar vs the Run and you then buff passing, logic would dictate that we trade off a little buff to Zone Run Def to offset the nerf to keep a balance. I'm not talking about individual players just the bigger picture in regards to balance. Zone sucks ass vs the Run and was formidable vs the pass, now not so much.

I thought we wanted variety and balance in this game instead of easy mode for one particular type of play.

What zone plays specifically suck against the run?

Originally posted by Bretto007
What zone plays specifically suck against the run?



Most, if not all of therm of them. Instead of running through their assignments like in Man, they players always drop back first, then read the play, then react...if your DL hasn't had some miracle to where they can stop or slow the runner, the rest of the team takes so long to get the ball carrier that it seems like we give up 5 ypc consistently no matter the play. Before the passing change, this was offset by forcing TO's.

Frankly anytime I've run the zone defense I've had better run defense than pass, but I think that's more of the teams I've run it on. Primarily with rookie CPUs.

Has been pretty decent, but it's a small sample and rookie.

Originally posted by Raid
Frankly anytime I've run the zone defense I've had better run defense than pass, but I think that's more of the teams I've run it on. Primarily with rookie CPUs.

Has been pretty decent, but it's a small sample and rookie.

Yeah, once you get to Pro/Vet, the power backs and their beefy o-lines start to run over you.

Originally posted by Raid
Frankly anytime I've run the zone defense I've had better run defense than pass, but I think that's more of the teams I've run it on. Primarily with rookie CPUs.

Has been pretty decent, but it's a small sample and rookie.

I have 2 zone teams, one in its 4th season at Vet and the other just hit Pro. Zone sucks vs the Run, it reacts very badly. Almost every single team I've faced on KYM runs the ball most of the game between the tackles and only throws when they have to. We are 4 games in the season and I can already see a change in the amount of picks I get drop significantly.

Originally posted by atlbruce
Yeah, once you get to Pro/Vet, the power backs and their beefy o-lines start to run over you.

The success I have at all so far this season has been due to my S*DL finally making plays vs runners occasionally ... the rest of the team makes me want to throw my drink against the wall wall when I watch the games.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
The success I have at all so far this season has been due to my S*DL finally making plays vs runners occasionally ... the rest of the team makes me want to throw my drink against the wall wall when I watch the games.

I also neglected to add any offseason point gains to any of the Sooners roster before our opening game. Haven't really been sure how to say this, when Agerm sees this it'll be the first time he's finding out. Unless he was suspecting this had happened. Just been feeling a little guilty about that, take from this what you want lol

I'm not saying it doesn't, just that for some reason CPU rookies tend to react pretty well to the run in zone.

Also the Chamrs do pretty well against the run when I put in the zone playbook as well... and they are man to man entirely.

...Could zone awareness be fucking up their ability to react to the run? Or possibly it's working off man awareness still despite being zone plays when checking for runs?

Originally posted by Raid

...Could zone awareness be fucking up their ability to react to the run? Or possibly it's working off man awareness still despite being zone plays when checking for runs?

No idea, but they seem to always drop straight back like the play is diagrammed and then react only after they hit their "home" spot which makes reaction times abysmal.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
No idea, but they seem to always drop straight back like the play is diagrammed and then react only after they hit their "home" spot which makes reaction times abysmal.

Yeah - I never noticed that when the chamrs run zone, so I'd wager the game is still using man to man awareness - or at least doing so up to the point of the player actually reaching their 'zone' to activate 'zone coverage' or whatever.

I'll go back and watch some games from last season to be sure they weren't just being superhuman run stoppers after doing some stupid stuff like that - but this very well could be a problem with the game automatically using man to man and the play not flagging the player as being in zone until he gets there.

Edit:
Yeah, you can see on plays like these that the players are reacting immediately to the handoff, though they are creating depth too soon.

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/726214/2329602
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/726214/2329743
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/726214/2329850

LBs in real life when they play zone stay close to their starting positions until they are fairly sure a pass is coming, then they'll drop back.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
No idea, but they seem to always drop straight back like the play is diagrammed and then react only after they hit their "home" spot which makes reaction times abysmal.

It seems to me if you don't want to have players drop back into position then you need to select plays to have them moving toward the line of scrimmage. You're essentially wanting your cake and eat it too. You want the players to drop back into their assigned position but also deviate from that at the same time.

Originally posted by Raid
Edit:
Yeah, you can see on plays like these that the players are reacting immediately to the handoff, though they are creating depth too soon.

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/726214/2329602
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/726214/2329743
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/726214/2329850

LBs in real life when they play zone stay close to their starting positions until they are fairly sure a pass is coming, then they'll drop back.

All three of your examples are blitz plays with LBs attacking toward the LoS, so I'm not sure these examples are the best ones to prove your point.

Originally posted by atlbruce
All three of your examples are blitz plays with LBs attacking toward the LoS, so I'm not sure these examples are the best ones to prove your point.

Some of them do, pay attention to the players who aren't blitzing. They aren't going all the way to their zones, they start, but the second the handoff occurs they go back for the ball.

You can watch the entire game if you'd like, it happens all throughout. If Myrick is right in that the players normally have to get to their zone in order to react to the run, then this is doing better than that low bar at least.

Originally posted by Bretto007
It seems to me if you don't want to have players drop back into position then you need to select plays to have them moving toward the line of scrimmage. You're essentially wanting your cake and eat it too. You want the players to drop back into their assigned position but also deviate from that at the same time.

What I want is for the players to make an actual play read instead doing some automated movement first. I already blitz the bejeezus out of teams all game just to do what you suggested, but why do the other players have to drop back into the zone home spot first before they can read a play? Can't they read the play first before dropping back into coverage if its a pass?

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
What I want is for the players to make an actual play read instead doing some automated movement first. I already blitz the bejeezus out of teams all game just to do what you suggested, but why do the other players have to drop back into the zone home spot first before they can read a play? Can't they read the play first before dropping back into coverage if its a pass?





So you're saying they don't go all the way home, they just start towards it and then react when the HB gets the ball? Like the examples I showed on the chamrs?

I mean, that's how they react in real life in zone coverage, read run first and create depth if the run doesn't occur.

But the reactions as soon as the ball is handed off works well on the chamrs, our run numbers when running zone are great... just since we can't defend pass as no one has zone aware...