Sure will.
if 30 pass awareness beats that blitz...something is obviously goofy
if 30 pass awareness beats that blitz...something is obviously goofy
Forum > Goal Line Blitz 2 > Vet Ladder Talk 5/24
Parab00n
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Originally posted by TxSteve
Sure will.
if 30 pass awareness beats that blitz...something is obviously goofy
My blitz is no where near the level of FSM and I've had a little success in the past blitzing Logzilla, but they weren't at the Vet level yet. I would assume that FSM would do very well.
Sure will.
if 30 pass awareness beats that blitz...something is obviously goofy
My blitz is no where near the level of FSM and I've had a little success in the past blitzing Logzilla, but they weren't at the Vet level yet. I would assume that FSM would do very well.
Xars
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Originally posted by Galithor
Will be interesting to see if he suffers Saul Silver's fate against FSM when ya'll face them.
Last season's game: http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/171527
We had equivalent yards, but I was -2 on Turnovers and lost by 10 (two scores). Had I not given up 79.3% completion rate to his QB, I would have had more than 65 plays and could have reversed that IMO. Belgarath's high Toughness and Heart should still allow him to perform well on a 3 sack/22 hurry day.
Originally posted by TxSteve
Sure will.
if 30 pass awareness beats that blitz...something is obviously goofy
No, that's the misconception. Pass Consistency is the anti-blitz check, not Pass Awareness. Belgarath is at 85 there. PA is "seeing" open receivers and going through checkdowns. PC is not losing accuracy when hurried. IMO.
Will be interesting to see if he suffers Saul Silver's fate against FSM when ya'll face them.
Last season's game: http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/171527
We had equivalent yards, but I was -2 on Turnovers and lost by 10 (two scores). Had I not given up 79.3% completion rate to his QB, I would have had more than 65 plays and could have reversed that IMO. Belgarath's high Toughness and Heart should still allow him to perform well on a 3 sack/22 hurry day.
Originally posted by TxSteve
Sure will.
if 30 pass awareness beats that blitz...something is obviously goofy
No, that's the misconception. Pass Consistency is the anti-blitz check, not Pass Awareness. Belgarath is at 85 there. PA is "seeing" open receivers and going through checkdowns. PC is not losing accuracy when hurried. IMO.
^I think this makes sense code wise...but not in RL. Should just be a skill called "Balls" or "Cojones"
crazieveggie
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Originally posted by Xars
Lol Rob. Don't overstate it. I only use 5 Passing plays.
The passing game is pathetic... Nerf the run some more.
Drank to much and screwed my line up.
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/185042
My running QB went 6-9... Throwing, His numbers:
11 Pass tech
9 Pass pow
10 Pass Acc
11 Pass Con
14 Po Aware
10 Pas Aware
Throwing to my Blocking TE with
15 RT
13 RH
14 RG
15 RC
11 RE
14 CIT
15 RA
The TE had 14 fricking catches..
Lol Rob. Don't overstate it. I only use 5 Passing plays.
The passing game is pathetic... Nerf the run some more.
Drank to much and screwed my line up.
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/185042
My running QB went 6-9... Throwing, His numbers:
11 Pass tech
9 Pass pow
10 Pass Acc
11 Pass Con
14 Po Aware
10 Pas Aware
Throwing to my Blocking TE with
15 RT
13 RH
14 RG
15 RC
11 RE
14 CIT
15 RA
The TE had 14 fricking catches..
FairForever
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Originally posted by Xars
No, that's the misconception. Pass Consistency is the anti-blitz check, not Pass Awareness. Belgarath is at 85 there. PA is "seeing" open receivers and going through checkdowns. PC is not losing accuracy when hurried. IMO.
Presumably if it takes you longer to go through check downs you're eating more sacks.
No, that's the misconception. Pass Consistency is the anti-blitz check, not Pass Awareness. Belgarath is at 85 there. PA is "seeing" open receivers and going through checkdowns. PC is not losing accuracy when hurried. IMO.
Presumably if it takes you longer to go through check downs you're eating more sacks.
Originally posted by FairForever
Presumably if it takes you longer to go through check downs you're eating more sacks.
QR also ruins some plays by going through the progressions too quickly IMO.
Presumably if it takes you longer to go through check downs you're eating more sacks.
QR also ruins some plays by going through the progressions too quickly IMO.
Galactic Empire
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Originally posted by Xars
No, that's the misconception. Pass Consistency is the anti-blitz check, not Pass Awareness. Belgarath is at 85 there. PA is "seeing" open receivers and going through checkdowns. PC is not losing accuracy when hurried. IMO.
Right...but if the blitzer sacks the QB before he can "see" an open WR...well then...
No, that's the misconception. Pass Consistency is the anti-blitz check, not Pass Awareness. Belgarath is at 85 there. PA is "seeing" open receivers and going through checkdowns. PC is not losing accuracy when hurried. IMO.
Right...but if the blitzer sacks the QB before he can "see" an open WR...well then...
Edited by Galactic Empire on May 26, 2015 09:16:09
Absolut Zero
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Originally posted by Xars
No, that's the misconception. Pass Consistency is the anti-blitz check, not Pass Awareness. Belgarath is at 85 there. PA is "seeing" open receivers and going through checkdowns. PC is not losing accuracy when hurried. IMO.
Yes and no. I don't think you're wrong, but I think it depends on what the defense is doing. There are times you want the QB to ditch the primary read earlier, such as if there's pressure coming and the primary read is currently doubled.
I definitely notice my Soph QB doing dumb things against Zone defenses because he isn't going through the reads fast enough.
No, that's the misconception. Pass Consistency is the anti-blitz check, not Pass Awareness. Belgarath is at 85 there. PA is "seeing" open receivers and going through checkdowns. PC is not losing accuracy when hurried. IMO.
Yes and no. I don't think you're wrong, but I think it depends on what the defense is doing. There are times you want the QB to ditch the primary read earlier, such as if there's pressure coming and the primary read is currently doubled.
I definitely notice my Soph QB doing dumb things against Zone defenses because he isn't going through the reads fast enough.
Cuivienen
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Originally posted by Dee.
^I think this makes sense code wise...but not in RL. Should just be a skill called "Balls" or "Cojones"
Yeah, but then that skill would need a hard cap of 2.
^I think this makes sense code wise...but not in RL. Should just be a skill called "Balls" or "Cojones"
Yeah, but then that skill would need a hard cap of 2.
It's never just about the QB.
Default Name for instance was built on the concept that WR would rarely get open and that the QB would be hurried. The few teams that just usually destroy the offense are heavy pass rush teams because they are able to get to the QB where other teams would just get the hurry. It's not about if they provide pressure but how fast do they get to that point.
Take for instance 3 teams all of which blitzed the hell out of me this season.
Team A = 27 hurries w/ 10 sacks and 2 int
Team B = 36 hurries w/ 6 sacks and 1 int
Team C = 36 hurries w/ 7 sacks and 0 int
Team A the QB had 44.3% passing and I lost by 24 points
Team B the QB had 59.6% passing and I won by 20 points
Team C the QB had 71.3% passing and I won by 24 points
The largest difference between these 3 teams is that Team A has a dedicated setup to eat me alive in the passing game and it worked. Other teams just don't get to the QB fast enough, though they are registering hurries. In addition their LB's and CB's are not doing a good enough job pass defending.
Now with all things equal in counterpoint, I have played Team A many times and here are historical from that team
Won by 17 with 27 hurries 10 sacks and 1 int with 61.3% passing
Lost by 49 with 25 hurries 9 sacks and 1 int with 50% passing
Won by 35-7 with 30 hurries 9 sacks and 0 int with 58.8% passing
Lost by 14 with 41 hurries 2 sacks and 0 int with 48.1% passing
With all this into one post looks like hurries and sacks don't quite determine the outcome of the games for this team and Default. They are very consistent with hurries and sacks, its the comp % that is the hardest driving force, sub 50% its a loss. Hm.... food for thought.
This all was to point out this is on a QB with
94 pass tech
95 pass acc
85 const
75 aware
Default Name for instance was built on the concept that WR would rarely get open and that the QB would be hurried. The few teams that just usually destroy the offense are heavy pass rush teams because they are able to get to the QB where other teams would just get the hurry. It's not about if they provide pressure but how fast do they get to that point.
Take for instance 3 teams all of which blitzed the hell out of me this season.
Team A = 27 hurries w/ 10 sacks and 2 int
Team B = 36 hurries w/ 6 sacks and 1 int
Team C = 36 hurries w/ 7 sacks and 0 int
Team A the QB had 44.3% passing and I lost by 24 points
Team B the QB had 59.6% passing and I won by 20 points
Team C the QB had 71.3% passing and I won by 24 points
The largest difference between these 3 teams is that Team A has a dedicated setup to eat me alive in the passing game and it worked. Other teams just don't get to the QB fast enough, though they are registering hurries. In addition their LB's and CB's are not doing a good enough job pass defending.
Now with all things equal in counterpoint, I have played Team A many times and here are historical from that team
Won by 17 with 27 hurries 10 sacks and 1 int with 61.3% passing
Lost by 49 with 25 hurries 9 sacks and 1 int with 50% passing
Won by 35-7 with 30 hurries 9 sacks and 0 int with 58.8% passing
Lost by 14 with 41 hurries 2 sacks and 0 int with 48.1% passing
With all this into one post looks like hurries and sacks don't quite determine the outcome of the games for this team and Default. They are very consistent with hurries and sacks, its the comp % that is the hardest driving force, sub 50% its a loss. Hm.... food for thought.
This all was to point out this is on a QB with
94 pass tech
95 pass acc
85 const
75 aware
Edited by Stobie on May 26, 2015 11:03:36
Been a discussion that happens often: how much do hurries really impact the throw? When looking at this data stobie - did you compare hurried completion % with non hurried completion %?
Galithor
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Originally posted by Absolut Zero
Yes and no. I don't think you're wrong, but I think it depends on what the defense is doing. There are times you want the QB to ditch the primary read earlier, such as if there's pressure coming and the primary read is currently doubled.
I definitely notice my Soph QB doing dumb things against Zone defenses because he isn't going through the reads fast enough.
Xars doesn't want his QB going through reads though. He's feeding Belgarion like a prize hog. To hell with whether he's doubled or not.
The QB decides to emergency unload passes right before a sack based on reasons other than pass awareness and who is currently targeted. Presumably pocket awareness, but that's been shown to have pretty marginal value too in avoiding sacks.
I recall that Bort or Corndog said progressions didn't work the same as GLB1 where it was literally a one after another read. Wasn't it described as being more like a weighting/value thing in GLB2? So the earlier progressions simply had more innate target value... regardless of the value from being "open". You needed pass awareness skill and/or quick read to help the QB assign more value to the "open/good" target and shift value from the "progressions". Maybe I remember this incorrectly though.
In Xars case, his lower PA and lack of QR simply means it takes really, really high "I'm Open" scores for his lower progression targets to get selected by the QB. Which could be a good thing from an efficiency standpoint. The QB only messes with them when they're basically a sure bet. Otherwise, the QB is following progression rank and feeding Belgarion.
Or maybe my understanding of how progressions vs target quality works with pass awareness and quick read is wrong.
Yes and no. I don't think you're wrong, but I think it depends on what the defense is doing. There are times you want the QB to ditch the primary read earlier, such as if there's pressure coming and the primary read is currently doubled.
I definitely notice my Soph QB doing dumb things against Zone defenses because he isn't going through the reads fast enough.
Xars doesn't want his QB going through reads though. He's feeding Belgarion like a prize hog. To hell with whether he's doubled or not.
The QB decides to emergency unload passes right before a sack based on reasons other than pass awareness and who is currently targeted. Presumably pocket awareness, but that's been shown to have pretty marginal value too in avoiding sacks.
I recall that Bort or Corndog said progressions didn't work the same as GLB1 where it was literally a one after another read. Wasn't it described as being more like a weighting/value thing in GLB2? So the earlier progressions simply had more innate target value... regardless of the value from being "open". You needed pass awareness skill and/or quick read to help the QB assign more value to the "open/good" target and shift value from the "progressions". Maybe I remember this incorrectly though.
In Xars case, his lower PA and lack of QR simply means it takes really, really high "I'm Open" scores for his lower progression targets to get selected by the QB. Which could be a good thing from an efficiency standpoint. The QB only messes with them when they're basically a sure bet. Otherwise, the QB is following progression rank and feeding Belgarion.
Or maybe my understanding of how progressions vs target quality works with pass awareness and quick read is wrong.
Edited by Galithor on May 26, 2015 11:08:35
Originally posted by TxSteve
Been a discussion that happens often: how much do hurries really impact the throw? When looking at this data stobie - did you compare hurried completion % with non hurried completion %?
Lets say the threshold on this QB of hurries is > 15.
Less than 15 averages in 9 games 62.14% with 2 INT
More than 15 averages in 3 games 59.58% with 3 INT
One of the telling numbers isn't so much the completion pct but the INT numbers,
2 in 9 games with less than 15 hurries
3 in 3 games with more than 15 hurries
Lets take all of S10 into consideration with this data.
Less than 15 averages in 17 games 62.04% with 7 INT and 13 sacks
More than 15 averages in 14 games 58.56% with 18 INT and 53 sacks
Passing percentage is obviously not the indicator on if a blitz is effective, to which I would agree with. A blitz isn't solely supposed to drop a pass percentage item, its to cause a rift in the timing and balance of a pass game to which it clearly does.
A heavy hurried/blitz game will produce more than 2x Int and obviously a direct result is more sacks but also 4 percentage points dropped in completion percentage.
This is all on an offense that was built to challenge the pressure with how QB and receiver was built. So I wonder on teams that are not built this way is there a much larger variance?
Been a discussion that happens often: how much do hurries really impact the throw? When looking at this data stobie - did you compare hurried completion % with non hurried completion %?
Lets say the threshold on this QB of hurries is > 15.
Less than 15 averages in 9 games 62.14% with 2 INT
More than 15 averages in 3 games 59.58% with 3 INT
One of the telling numbers isn't so much the completion pct but the INT numbers,
2 in 9 games with less than 15 hurries
3 in 3 games with more than 15 hurries
Lets take all of S10 into consideration with this data.
Less than 15 averages in 17 games 62.04% with 7 INT and 13 sacks
More than 15 averages in 14 games 58.56% with 18 INT and 53 sacks
Passing percentage is obviously not the indicator on if a blitz is effective, to which I would agree with. A blitz isn't solely supposed to drop a pass percentage item, its to cause a rift in the timing and balance of a pass game to which it clearly does.
A heavy hurried/blitz game will produce more than 2x Int and obviously a direct result is more sacks but also 4 percentage points dropped in completion percentage.
This is all on an offense that was built to challenge the pressure with how QB and receiver was built. So I wonder on teams that are not built this way is there a much larger variance?
Edited by Stobie on May 26, 2015 11:26:19
Took this one step further and evaluated Logzilla in the same token against Default.
2 similar offenses but drastically different. Default, spread the ball around, Logzilla, feed one WR over and over.
Less than 15 averages in 37 games 57.66% with 25 INT and 18 sacks
More than 15 averages in 6 games 52.6% with 8 INT and 17 sacks
Again... more INT changes and hit on pass percentage though seems Logzilla had a larger difference in comp % when the heat was turned up.
Now look as Saul Silver
Less than 15 averages in 43 games 59.16% with 33 INT and 39 sacks
More than 15 averages in 13 games 55.88% with 9 INT and 24 sacks
Saul still gets the percentage hit, but seems the INT numbers don't quite follow the same pattern as he seems INT prone as it is.
2 similar offenses but drastically different. Default, spread the ball around, Logzilla, feed one WR over and over.
Less than 15 averages in 37 games 57.66% with 25 INT and 18 sacks
More than 15 averages in 6 games 52.6% with 8 INT and 17 sacks
Again... more INT changes and hit on pass percentage though seems Logzilla had a larger difference in comp % when the heat was turned up.
Now look as Saul Silver
Less than 15 averages in 43 games 59.16% with 33 INT and 39 sacks
More than 15 averages in 13 games 55.88% with 9 INT and 24 sacks
Saul still gets the percentage hit, but seems the INT numbers don't quite follow the same pattern as he seems INT prone as it is.
Edited by Stobie on May 26, 2015 11:41:28
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