Yeah. I'm guessing we lose a lot of new players to the GL QB rollout. You get excited to find a neat little football RPG game and then you watch that cheesy stuff happening every single game. The novelty wears off pretty quickly.
Forum > Suggestions > QB Roll Out Plays
Originally posted by thurinn
Yeah. I'm guessing we lose a lot of new players to the GL QB rollout. You get excited to find a neat little football RPG game and then you watch that cheesy stuff happening every single game. The novelty wears off pretty quickly.
That's how every competitive RPG ever has played out.
If it's not QB Roll Out, people will spam the next best play that beats on basic AI.
Hell, not even RPG. Every game of LoL or DotA will have the pubstomp heroes selected. Every single game.
Yeah. I'm guessing we lose a lot of new players to the GL QB rollout. You get excited to find a neat little football RPG game and then you watch that cheesy stuff happening every single game. The novelty wears off pretty quickly.
That's how every competitive RPG ever has played out.
If it's not QB Roll Out, people will spam the next best play that beats on basic AI.
Hell, not even RPG. Every game of LoL or DotA will have the pubstomp heroes selected. Every single game.
Edited by Corndog on Feb 27, 2015 07:47:57
That doesn't (necessarily) mean things are balanced though.
Using Stobie's play analyzer - and GL QB Rollouts:
ROOKIE only
run 2608 times
12.1 yards per carry average
Best plays against it with more then 25 occasions:
Dime 3-2-6 Edge 2 Buzz has held it to 2.2 yards per carry (big%: 12.5)
3-4 C1 Wide Dogs has held it to 3.09 ypc (big% 10.87)
Dime 3-2-6 2 Strong Corner Fire held it to 3.7 ypc
So - Just add those 3 to the default GL playbooks...seems pretty simple to me...
Worst D's vs GL QB rollout with more than 25 matchups:
Goal Line D Gaps all fire: 36.39 yards per carry
5-2 GL All Gaps Fire: 35.91 yards per carry
Goal Line D B Gaps Fire: 35.85
Goal Line D Blitz C: 22.96
Goal Line D MLB Gap A Weak: 20.56 per
Goal Line D LB Contain: 20.09 per
Goal lione D MLB Gap A: 19.49
5-2 GL LB Contain: 18.19
4-4 Man LB Contain: 14.27 per
Step 1: just put the good plays into the defaults above. Do some of them open up inside GL runs for 4-5 yards? Sure - but it at least makes things more competitive at rookie.
Step 2: Ask yourself: why do all of these GL contain plays fail so miserably at an outside GL run?
Using Stobie's play analyzer - and GL QB Rollouts:
ROOKIE only
run 2608 times
12.1 yards per carry average
Best plays against it with more then 25 occasions:
Dime 3-2-6 Edge 2 Buzz has held it to 2.2 yards per carry (big%: 12.5)
3-4 C1 Wide Dogs has held it to 3.09 ypc (big% 10.87)
Dime 3-2-6 2 Strong Corner Fire held it to 3.7 ypc
So - Just add those 3 to the default GL playbooks...seems pretty simple to me...
Worst D's vs GL QB rollout with more than 25 matchups:
Goal Line D Gaps all fire: 36.39 yards per carry
5-2 GL All Gaps Fire: 35.91 yards per carry
Goal Line D B Gaps Fire: 35.85
Goal Line D Blitz C: 22.96
Goal Line D MLB Gap A Weak: 20.56 per
Goal Line D LB Contain: 20.09 per
Goal lione D MLB Gap A: 19.49
5-2 GL LB Contain: 18.19
4-4 Man LB Contain: 14.27 per
Step 1: just put the good plays into the defaults above. Do some of them open up inside GL runs for 4-5 yards? Sure - but it at least makes things more competitive at rookie.
Step 2: Ask yourself: why do all of these GL contain plays fail so miserably at an outside GL run?
bhall43
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Originally posted by Corndog
That's how every competitive RPG ever has played out.
If it's not QB Roll Out, people will spam the next best play that beats on basic AI.
Hell, not even RPG. Every game of LoL or DotA will have the pubstomp heroes selected. Every single game.
That is a cop out though. People spam GL formation because there really isn't a lot of logical ways to attack it and it is being overused for unintended purposes. It is just a wealth of lead blockers that no other formation brings to the table and its just hope and pray your builds win out.
That's how every competitive RPG ever has played out.
If it's not QB Roll Out, people will spam the next best play that beats on basic AI.
Hell, not even RPG. Every game of LoL or DotA will have the pubstomp heroes selected. Every single game.
That is a cop out though. People spam GL formation because there really isn't a lot of logical ways to attack it and it is being overused for unintended purposes. It is just a wealth of lead blockers that no other formation brings to the table and its just hope and pray your builds win out.
Originally posted by TxSteve
That doesn't (necessarily) mean things are balanced though.
Yeah, of course.
I'm just saying the "everyone quits because people run X play all the time" is poor reasoning. People do whatever gives them the best chance of winning, and that always equates to using whatever works best as much as you can. For better or worse, that's just the nature of competitive gaming...if given a choice, players will use the best option available.
I'll play around with some low level goal line testing either way.
That doesn't (necessarily) mean things are balanced though.
Yeah, of course.
I'm just saying the "everyone quits because people run X play all the time" is poor reasoning. People do whatever gives them the best chance of winning, and that always equates to using whatever works best as much as you can. For better or worse, that's just the nature of competitive gaming...if given a choice, players will use the best option available.
I'll play around with some low level goal line testing either way.
Originally posted by Corndog
Yeah, of course.
I'm just saying the "everyone quits because people run X play all the time" is poor reasoning. People do whatever gives them the best chance of winning, and that always equates to using whatever works best as much as you can. For better or worse, that's just the nature of competitive gaming...if given a choice, players will use the best option available.
I'll play around with some low level goal line testing either way.
I hear you - and I'm sure you'll remember this is a conversation we've all had before (RIP Xavori). I'm not on the "people quit" train - but I am on the "not good for the game" train. If the root of the issue is that people use default playbooks and get raped -- that is like a 5 minute fix (I assume) to drop those plays into GL D of the defaults.
I wouldn't even bother testing it -- just drop them in and see how it changes things for the next few weeks -- that way you can spend your programming time on tournaments and tweaking the ladder formula
Yeah, of course.
I'm just saying the "everyone quits because people run X play all the time" is poor reasoning. People do whatever gives them the best chance of winning, and that always equates to using whatever works best as much as you can. For better or worse, that's just the nature of competitive gaming...if given a choice, players will use the best option available.
I'll play around with some low level goal line testing either way.
I hear you - and I'm sure you'll remember this is a conversation we've all had before (RIP Xavori). I'm not on the "people quit" train - but I am on the "not good for the game" train. If the root of the issue is that people use default playbooks and get raped -- that is like a 5 minute fix (I assume) to drop those plays into GL D of the defaults.
I wouldn't even bother testing it -- just drop them in and see how it changes things for the next few weeks -- that way you can spend your programming time on tournaments and tweaking the ladder formula
Originally posted by TxSteve
I hear you - and I'm sure you'll remember this is a conversation we've all had before (RIP Xavori). I'm not on the "people quit" train - but I am on the "not good for the game" train. If the root of the issue is that people use default playbooks and get raped -- that is like a 5 minute fix (I assume) to drop those plays into GL D of the defaults.
But what I'm saying, is that shortly after those changes go in, people will find out what the new hot play against basic AI is, then spam that in Rookie instead.
If there's no play that works best against basic AI, we have effectively achieved balance. And effectively removed any point in "gameplanning".
I hear you - and I'm sure you'll remember this is a conversation we've all had before (RIP Xavori). I'm not on the "people quit" train - but I am on the "not good for the game" train. If the root of the issue is that people use default playbooks and get raped -- that is like a 5 minute fix (I assume) to drop those plays into GL D of the defaults.
But what I'm saying, is that shortly after those changes go in, people will find out what the new hot play against basic AI is, then spam that in Rookie instead.
If there's no play that works best against basic AI, we have effectively achieved balance. And effectively removed any point in "gameplanning".
bhall43
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The fact that you keep arguing about finding the new hot play when the formation is clearly the problem from day 1 is just well...sigh.
You're right, Goal Line is a pretty dumb formation to be viable as a base.
I'd prefer to just remove it.
I'd prefer to just remove it.
bhall43
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Either give the defense a number of defenses that attack the strength of GL's strong side or remove the strong side elements of it (QB Rollout Strong/HB Pitch) so that the formation is used for its intent. It is that simple and has been that simple for a long time now.
bhall43
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Originally posted by Corndog
You're right, Goal Line is a pretty dumb formation to be viable as a base.
I'd prefer to just remove it.
If serious I don't think you have to remove it entirely. Just the pitch and Strong Side rollout. Everything else is fine. You can even keep the weakside rollout and FB weak for those willing to commit all in on the inside. Would be used less as an all day type formation and more for actual short yardage situations.
You're right, Goal Line is a pretty dumb formation to be viable as a base.
I'd prefer to just remove it.
If serious I don't think you have to remove it entirely. Just the pitch and Strong Side rollout. Everything else is fine. You can even keep the weakside rollout and FB weak for those willing to commit all in on the inside. Would be used less as an all day type formation and more for actual short yardage situations.
Rob.
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Originally posted by TxSteve
That doesn't (necessarily) mean things are balanced though.
Using Stobie's play analyzer - and GL QB Rollouts:
ROOKIE only
run 2608 times
12.1 yards per carry average
Best plays against it with more then 25 occasions:
Dime 3-2-6 Edge 2 Buzz has held it to 2.2 yards per carry (big%: 12.5)
3-4 C1 Wide Dogs has held it to 3.09 ypc (big% 10.87)
Dime 3-2-6 2 Strong Corner Fire held it to 3.7 ypc
So - Just add those 3 to the default GL playbooks...seems pretty simple to me...
Worst D's vs GL QB rollout with more than 25 matchups:
Goal Line D Gaps all fire: 36.39 yards per carry
5-2 GL All Gaps Fire: 35.91 yards per carry
Goal Line D B Gaps Fire: 35.85
Goal Line D Blitz C: 22.96
Goal Line D MLB Gap A Weak: 20.56 per
Goal Line D LB Contain: 20.09 per
Goal lione D MLB Gap A: 19.49
5-2 GL LB Contain: 18.19
4-4 Man LB Contain: 14.27 per
Step 1: just put the good plays into the defaults above. Do some of them open up inside GL runs for 4-5 yards? Sure - but it at least makes things more competitive at rookie.
Step 2: Ask yourself: why do all of these GL contain plays fail so miserably at an outside GL run?
Kinda funny to think the game is called Goal Line Blitz, and Goal Line Blitzes are the worst plays in the game.
That doesn't (necessarily) mean things are balanced though.
Using Stobie's play analyzer - and GL QB Rollouts:
ROOKIE only
run 2608 times
12.1 yards per carry average
Best plays against it with more then 25 occasions:
Dime 3-2-6 Edge 2 Buzz has held it to 2.2 yards per carry (big%: 12.5)
3-4 C1 Wide Dogs has held it to 3.09 ypc (big% 10.87)
Dime 3-2-6 2 Strong Corner Fire held it to 3.7 ypc
So - Just add those 3 to the default GL playbooks...seems pretty simple to me...
Worst D's vs GL QB rollout with more than 25 matchups:
Goal Line D Gaps all fire: 36.39 yards per carry
5-2 GL All Gaps Fire: 35.91 yards per carry
Goal Line D B Gaps Fire: 35.85
Goal Line D Blitz C: 22.96
Goal Line D MLB Gap A Weak: 20.56 per
Goal Line D LB Contain: 20.09 per
Goal lione D MLB Gap A: 19.49
5-2 GL LB Contain: 18.19
4-4 Man LB Contain: 14.27 per
Step 1: just put the good plays into the defaults above. Do some of them open up inside GL runs for 4-5 yards? Sure - but it at least makes things more competitive at rookie.
Step 2: Ask yourself: why do all of these GL contain plays fail so miserably at an outside GL run?
Kinda funny to think the game is called Goal Line Blitz, and Goal Line Blitzes are the worst plays in the game.
Originally posted by Corndog
But what I'm saying, is that shortly after those changes go in, people will find out what the new hot play against basic AI is, then spam that in Rookie instead.
If there's no play that works best against basic AI, we have effectively achieved balance. And effectively removed any point in "gameplanning".
I agree. People will find new things to spam. But looking just at GL - if they start spamming off tackle to beat the Dime - than that is still a net WIN for the game and competitiveness. Offenses will still do well - but score much more slowly as they march down the field 5 yards at a time.
But what I'm saying, is that shortly after those changes go in, people will find out what the new hot play against basic AI is, then spam that in Rookie instead.
If there's no play that works best against basic AI, we have effectively achieved balance. And effectively removed any point in "gameplanning".
I agree. People will find new things to spam. But looking just at GL - if they start spamming off tackle to beat the Dime - than that is still a net WIN for the game and competitiveness. Offenses will still do well - but score much more slowly as they march down the field 5 yards at a time.
Originally posted by Corndog
You're right, Goal Line is a pretty dumb formation to be viable as a base.
I'd prefer to just remove it.
Is it possible to limit GL to only actual GL situations?
Say - can only be used inside the 5 or something?
If you simply removed GL formations from the offense - I wouldn't really have an issue either -- but I'm certain there would be a lot of annoyed/unhappy people
You're right, Goal Line is a pretty dumb formation to be viable as a base.
I'd prefer to just remove it.
Is it possible to limit GL to only actual GL situations?
Say - can only be used inside the 5 or something?
If you simply removed GL formations from the offense - I wouldn't really have an issue either -- but I'm certain there would be a lot of annoyed/unhappy people
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