Warrior General Games

Originally posted by TxSteve
Don't get me wrong - I'm sure your QB is amazing. But, your QB is protected in ladder games and only plays other sophomore teams.

Cleveland and Dexter both had to play seasoned and even journeyman teams in the ladder when they were sophomores.

If you look and compare only their league games -- sophomore vs sophomore -- you would get a more accurate...but possibly still skewed comparison


Maybe your data would hold up if you went through by hand to only calculate soph vs soph competition -- or maybe it wouldn't -- I'm not sure. But what you've shown is definitely an unfair comparison


Valid points.

However, the pass coverage changes went into effect after S4, so that helped them. But then Belgarath has the benefit of playing against a lot of top teams geared to stop the run in his tier, which has helped him.

The game will change over the course of the seasons and it will be hard to apple-to-apple everything.

Since you mentioned it and I was curious, here's the League only stats:

Cleveland Brown S3 Soph

QB Rating: 107.8
Completion Rate: 59.45%
Sack Rate: 4.48%
Hurry Rate: 10.69%
TD-Sack Ratio: 1.78

Dexter Morgan S4 Soph

QB Rating: 100.5
Completion Rate: 57.62%
Sack Rate: 3.05%
Hurry Rate: 5.59%
TD-Sack Ratio: 2.26

Belgarath the Eternal Man S7 Soph (current thru 10 games)

QB Rating: 117.8
Completion Rate: 68.38%
Sack Rate: 1.99%
Hurry Rate: 5.27%
TD-Sack Ratio: 4.47

I don't know the League competition for Cleveland and Dexter, but Belgarath plays in Ruby which has the highest overall Ladder rank - 194 vs. 207, 212, 212, 213 and 214.

Originally posted by peeti
Did Stobie admit doing it or do you just figure?^^

LOL, yes he did.

Ya - tough to compare for sure.
I'm sure we could go on and on and on with differences in the game itself that might favor one or the other.

You mentioned coverage improvements
but also:
blitz effectiveness reduction (remember dogs all go of seasons 2/3/4 in rookie?
also in there was the middle overload spam
also in there is the "rattled mechanic" being created
etc
etc


(obviously QB rating / TD passes etc have to do with your QB..and the receivers...and the coverage that is being played -- so he is certainly playing a role)


Also - are you aware your QBs build is open? Obviously pocket awareness isn't a factor in avoiding blitzes -- and nothing too difficult (especially at sophomore) about building a pure pass blocking O-Line -- so I would have to guess the major factors in reduced sacks are:

- sim changes
- good coordinating choosing passing plays that reduce sack %'s (much easier now with stobie's scout tool than it was in past seasons)
- pure pass blocking line

When discussing sack rate:

Air Raid had a much different and less ideal roster in sophomore. We've replaced 2/3rds of the receivers and defense since then. Our roster is considerably stronger now than it was in Sophomore.

It's not surprising to see Logzilla/Default Name do so well on pass protection now with the better knowledge of play-calling/player building that we all have. Adder's right too about the meta changing. There's fewer defenses with crazy all-out pass rush builds because of how strong the rushing game has been. So defenses are less capable of causing grief to better built passing teams.

There's also been changes to how the game works since then too. DAG was still a thing back then.

Fidel Billings Soph Campaign was just last season S6

Fidel Billings S6 Soph - League Only

QB Rating: 108.9
Completion Rate: 62.75%
Sack Rate: 0.69%
Hurry Rate: 4.70%
TD-Sack Ratio: 9.00

And yes I know my QBs build is open - it's by design. Same with S* WR Belgarion.

I thought it was the easiest way to dispel the myth that Rookie QBs need massive Pass Awareness to beat the blitz.

Originally posted by Xars
GE,

The biggest problem with the play you linked is that it's 3rd and 20. The QB is coded to hold the ball until the Receivers get to the First Down marker. That's why it's a tick 40 sack.

What you should realize though is at tick 39, both WR1 and WR2 are at 10 yard depths and open. WR3 is at 9 yards and open.

On a more normal 3rd and 10, you won't get that sack usually.

Getting sacks on 3rd and 20 isn't special. You may be enamored with that play, but it's not as effective normally.

To dive deeper, I just used Stobie's tool to analyze that blitz.

Your sack rate on Nickel 3-3-5 Loop Crash 2 is 6.6% overall, but it's only 4.7% on plays 10 yards or less while it's 33.3% on plays 11 or more.

On 3rd and up to 10, the first down conversion rate against it is 57.1%.

A good passing team will take those odds - 57.4% conversion vs. 4.7% sack - as those are baseline.

Against LogZilla or Default or any other top passing attack, you're making an extraordinary SP investment to try and get .5 sacks per game. LogZilla averages 12 third down plays per game and rarely take sacks (1.82% sack rate - lowest ever for Soph GLB2).

And there's no way MLB Vader can cover my WR3 Belgarion on that play.



Yeah, I realize all that. My builds are not complete yet however. I want to see how fast my speed CB can get to the QB with 97 speed and first step. I'm hoping he can get there in at least 25 ticks. So if he doesn't get the sack, at least he can get pressure. I am max his Intim out, but it only caps at 25. I forgot to account for it when doing his build. When I reset, I'll probably go much higher in Intim and stay at the high speed. I'm not deviating from my plan...this team is a tester team. Just wait until "Empire Strikes Back" gets created!

At the vet level, what is the average tick the QB will release the ball on a 1st and 10?

Originally posted by Galactic Empire

At the vet level, what is the average tick the QB will release the ball on a 1st and 10?

Now that's a good question. I'd watch Air Raid games as a starting point.

Originally posted by Galactic Empire
Yeah, I realize all that. My builds are not complete yet however. I want to see how fast my speed CB can get to the QB with 97 speed and first step. I'm hoping he can get there in at least 25 ticks. So if he doesn't get the sack, at least he can get pressure. I am max his Intim out, but it only caps at 25. I forgot to account for it when doing his build. When I reset, I'll probably go much higher in Intim and stay at the high speed. I'm not deviating from my plan...this team is a tester team. Just wait until "Empire Strikes Back" gets created!

At the vet level, what is the average tick the QB will release the ball on a 1st and 10?

Depends on the QB, the team design, and the defensive playcalling/builds.

Originally posted by Xars
Now that's a good question. I'd watch Air Raid games as a starting point.


I'd watch the Air Raid vs Louisiana game. Specifically, watch Cajun Cannon. IIRC, we blitzed them a bunch.

Most teams don't bother to blitz Air Raid. Probably not a good indicator of how quickly a QB will throw watching us.

Fwiw, I've already told Galactic that the "pass rushing" CB is a bad idea. There's no advantage to blitzing a CB that another down lineman or LB built for blitzing couldn't do better.

There is absolutely a coverage penalty though when you remove a position suited for a coverage build, and replace it with a LB, that can't be built as strongly for coverage.

Originally posted by Galithor
Fwiw, I've already told Galactic that the "pass rushing" CB is a bad idea. There's no advantage to blitzing a CB that another down lineman or LB built for blitzing couldn't do better.

There is absolutely a coverage penalty though when you remove a position suited for a coverage build, and replace it with a LB, that can't be built as strongly for coverage.

No LB or DL can run as fast as a CB...I know he starts from further back but he will always get a clean shot at the QB unless the right guard moves back in time to take him, which I do not think he will be able to do due to the speed of the CB at full build. It's an experiment so I will wait and see how it turns out.

Originally posted by Galithor
I'd watch the Air Raid vs Louisiana game. Specifically, watch Cajun Cannon. IIRC, we blitzed them a bunch.

Most teams don't bother to blitz Air Raid. Probably not a good indicator of how quickly a QB will throw watching us.

Not really sure it matters. This guy throws the ball at the 25 tick mark when his receiver is covered.
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/124565/1596299

Same here:
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/124565/1596313

One thing I noticed, the QB throws the ball as soon as the WR does "Head Fake".

Same here with the Head Fake but at the 33 tick mark.
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/124565/1596327

20 tick mark:
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/124565/1596339

LOL...almost every single play, the QB throws the ball when the WR does the "Head Fake" and the CB just stands there frozen.

Oooohhhh...I just read the "Head Fake" SA. "Chance to fake out defenders playing man coverage vs this player". Good luck faking out my zone DBs.

By not faking out the zone DBs, the QB will not throw the ball as fast, thus letting my super sonic speedster Stormtroopers come in for the smack down sack!

Originally posted by Galactic Empire
Oooohhhh...I just read the "Head Fake" SA. "Chance to fake out defenders playing man coverage vs this player". Good luck faking out my zone DBs.

By not faking out the zone DBs, the QB will not throw the ball as fast, thus letting my super sonic speedster Stormtroopers come in for the smack down sack!

Pump Fake, ftw!

Originally posted by AirMcMVP
Pump Fake, ftw!

Max out Zone Awareness for the counter...finish him!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hHDxlm66dE