Warrior General Games

Originally posted by bhall43
In fact this makes everything worse. As a person who has seen the upper level passing and the now passing they dont need extra blockers right now and they most certainly dont need to get rid of the FB/HB/TE within their progressions because of blitz's. That suggestion sucks on all levels for DC's.

wut

Originally posted by mrm708
wut

If you don't get the fact that HB's, FB's, and a lot of times TE's are shit in your progressions already than I don't know what to tell you.

And it sucks for DC's because holy shit blitzing now results in passes to all WR's and probably TE's because every OC is holding their HB's and FB's. Good day sir.

Originally posted by bhall43
If you don't get the fact that HB's, FB's, and a lot of times TE's are shit in your progressions already than I don't know what to tell you.

And it sucks for DC's because holy shit blitzing now results in passes to all WR's and probably TE's because every OC is holding their HB's and FB's. Good day sir.

The only time any additional blockers would be held would be after the QB has been sacked a bunch of times. In most higher levels games with only a handful of sacks this change wouldn't even be noticeable.

Originally posted by mrm708
The only time any additional blockers would be held would be after the QB has been sacked a bunch of times. In most higher levels games with only a handful of sacks this change wouldn't even be noticeable.

Again that isn't a fix that is helpful. This play is good because of the way it hurries a QB. Because it is literally the best way to hurry a QB. There are a handful of plays that help this sure. But holding a guy in does not help this.

Are you following me thus far?

Now if I hold in the HB/FB because of this play. That is terrible. Because that makes it more likely that I am passing to an actual target that makes sense to me as an OC. I really want this to happen.

You say not noticeable? I say I know wtf I want as an OC. And I don't want to pass to HB's or FB's. Thanks defense.


Now you will come at me with well DC's need to BALANCE! OH lord......

You either have to change the play to meet its specifics or remove it. It is as simple as that. Rewriting the code for every play because you completely fucked up how a play runs is...well exactly how GLB works.

how does holding in an extra blocker not help in eliminating hurries? Maybe I am just too tired to even follow your argument ill try again tomorrow

Originally posted by mrm708
how does holding in an extra blocker not help in eliminating hurries? Maybe I am just too tired to even follow your argument ill try again tomorrow

How does that help defense at all? A part that is complete shit already? I mean I don't think that eliminates hurries at all because the HB is shit in blocking because nobody has any skills there but that eliminates him from a check down so the pass legitimately goes to the best route possible.

We are fixing this for MO when all it does is further kill the rest of blitzing altogether. That isn't a fix. And furthermore that is bullshit. The play is stupid and bugged and fucked. Stop making excuses for a broken play and either remove or fix it.

It is the same thing with those god damn corner routes. Stop making excuses for why they are ok and fix them. These are the things that make people go fuck this game because everyone just makes excuses for really dumb things that are obvious to EVERYONE.

I already pointed that out at the beginning of the season...this play is too powerful

The issue with the play is it functions like ZEB right now, except the LBs and dline are packed in much closer with tighter angles to the QB, and the tight packing gives the dline better starting points against the blockers. The lbs can reliably reach the QB a few ticks sooner than any other pass blitz because of the starting positions. The dlines positioning gives them enough advantages to reliably break a guy through relatively quickly on most downs. Like all dual OLB blitzes, the QB has no option to roll away from the pressure. Only elitely built pass blocking olines manage to get a block on 5 defenders even semi regularly. Combine with a high pocket awareness build, you sometimes manage to get all 6 blocked by holding in a back. Its a very rare deal though. Thus, MO is the overpowered blitz because it gets more defenders to the QB sooner than any other blitz more reliably. It also gives up very little on the inside run, destroys counter plays, and even defends a decent number of pitches effectively if your defense is built pretty well to take advantage of it.

this leaves an offensive coordinator a very, very limited selection of passing and pitch plays to counter it. Plays the must run exclusively, for if they don't the tfl/sack showboat parade will curbstomp the offenses morale to the point even the good plays become unreliable.

What if the LB's don't blitz...but instead have the dotted line...

or instead if they don't blitz - they just stand there close as their starting point- then the play will still destroy inside running (as it is supposed to) but it won't have as dramatic of a pass rush component.

Originally posted by TxSteve
What if the LB's don't blitz...but instead have the dotted line...

or instead if they don't blitz - they just stand there close as their starting point- then the play will still destroy inside running (as it is supposed to) but it won't have as dramatic of a pass rush component.




I suspect them not blitzing would greatly increase it's anti pitch capabilities too though. You'd trade better passing for for more run dominance.

how about if the QB could just reliably find the open man, especially after the play was run ... I dunno 10 times?


we have pocket and pass awareness - both could be used to create a more effective 'read' response to the obvious blitz - weight it with the number of times the play has been seen in a game.

so after 5 middle overloads your 50 pocket awareness is 75 and your 50 pass awareness is 75 and maybe your WR/TE/HB receiving awareness is buffed too so the effectiveness goes down down down as it get used more

you could do this for any play really and prevent a team from being just 1 look all the time. So then it's a match between weathering the storm and adapting vs. forcing turnovers and morale spirals early.

add in more levels on the 'ahead by - behind by - X minutes left' tiers and you could have real strategy in how you choose to unleash different plays and play styles

That still isn't fixing this play.

Originally posted by Rom_Fox
how about if the QB could just reliably find the open man, especially after the play was run ... I dunno 10 times?


we have pocket and pass awareness - both could be used to create a more effective 'read' response to the obvious blitz - weight it with the number of times the play has been seen in a game.

so after 5 middle overloads your 50 pocket awareness is 75 and your 50 pass awareness is 75 and maybe your WR/TE/HB receiving awareness is buffed too so the effectiveness goes down down down as it get used more

you could do this for any play really and prevent a team from being just 1 look all the time. So then it's a match between weathering the storm and adapting vs. forcing turnovers and morale spirals early.

add in more levels on the 'ahead by - behind by - X minutes left' tiers and you could have real strategy in how you choose to unleash different plays and play styles

Originally posted by bhall43
That still isn't fixing this play.

I rather like the idea TBQH...perhaps it doesn't fix the play (and that can & should happen too), but it does add an element of intelligence/logic to the game. Penalizes spamming plays repeatedly... same logic could work against OC's that spam GL Rollout too... make the OC's and DC's actually call plays instead of spamming one or two plays that "work". The more they spam a play, the less effective it gets.

Originally posted by Aeir
I rather like the idea TBQH...perhaps it doesn't fix the play (and that can & should happen too), but it does add an element of intelligence/logic to the game. Penalizes spamming plays repeatedly... same logic could work against OC's that spam GL Rollout too... make the OC's and DC's actually call plays instead of spamming one or two plays that "work". The more they spam a play, the less effective it gets.

yeah i don't love these situations where we wind up running a million of the same 5 plays