Warrior General Games

Originally posted by william78
Rather than the wholesale change of totally eliminating divisions and creating new complaints from guys who hate that system, wouldn't it just be simpler to put a check box option in for owners willing to move to a new division within the same League? - - -

If they want to move it could be a simply check of the average ELO across all three divisions and you move the team (stronger or weaker) into a new division to make it closer to the ELO average of the other two.

What encourages the teams in the "weaker" division to check the box?

Originally posted by NiborRis
What encourages the teams in the "weaker" division to check the box?

They actually don't need to, you have inactive owners and those resetting who are giving up their spot to go rookie.

Those will create open spots in divisions, no one would be forced to change but almost every league has 1-3 teams that are either inactive or the owner is dropping down. That should create enough opportunities for owners to shift and basing it on average ladder rank would be a good approximation for ensuring equal divisions.

Originally posted by william78
They actually don't need to, you have inactive owners and those resetting who are giving up their spot to go rookie.

Those will create open spots in divisions, no one would be forced to change but almost every league has 1-3 teams that are either inactive or the owner is dropping down. That should create enough opportunities for owners to shift and basing it on average ladder rank would be a good approximation for ensuring equal divisions.


They already replace those teams with existing teams from other leagues.

Originally posted by bhall43
They already replace those teams with existing teams from other leagues.

I am aware of that, its simply allowing a team or two from a stacked division to go to another division and move the new team into the old spot.

Originally posted by william78
I am aware of that, its simply allowing a team or two from a stacked division to go to another division and move the new team into the old spot.

Or just keep the divisions together and those inactive divisions get better through other leagues teams. There really is no argument to be had for a team needing to move to a weaker division. Save the shuffling for disbanded league teams.

Originally posted by bhall43
Or just keep the divisions together and those inactive divisions get better through other leagues teams. There really is no argument to be had for a team needing to move to a weaker division. Save the shuffling for disbanded league teams.

Sure there is, if you have two top 30 ladder teams in the same division and one division with a ladder 80 and multiple 130+'s you have an unbalanced league.

Originally posted by william78
Sure there is, if you have two top 30 ladder teams in the same division and one division with a ladder 80 and multiple 130+'s you have an unbalanced league.

Yeah, but if one of the 130+s is leaving, and another top 30 ladder team is coming in...you seem to think that the team that currently lost out in the division with 2 top 30 ladder teams should get to move to the other division, while the incoming team should take that team's place...

There's no way to "fix" this. You have to accept there will be some inequity in competition. No one's proposed "fix" will keep someone from feeling like they got put into a bad spot they didn't deserve and that they could have done better if only they'd been given a better starting location. What we have right now, though, does prevent anyone from tanking seasons or deliberately trying to game the system to create unfair competition. To introduce some way of gaming the system you'll need a lot more compelling argument that you're fixing a lot more problems...which you aren't.

Originally posted by NiborRis
Yeah, but if one of the 130+s is leaving, and another top 30 ladder team is coming in...you seem to think that the team that currently lost out in the division with 2 top 30 ladder teams should get to move to the other division, while the incoming team should take that team's place...

There's no way to "fix" this. You have to accept there will be some inequity in competition. No one's proposed "fix" will keep someone from feeling like they got put into a bad spot they didn't deserve and that they could have done better if only they'd been given a better starting location. What we have right now, though, does prevent anyone from tanking seasons or deliberately trying to game the system to create unfair competition. To introduce some way of gaming the system you'll need a lot more compelling argument that you're fixing a lot more problems...which you aren't.

Your begging the question by assuming the incoming team would be a 30 or better ladder team.

I don't see anything wrong with calculating average ladder position for new teams and trying to equalize the league. ITs a fairly simple process without requiring a total overahul and would bring the divisions closer to each other in strength in the long term, perfect - no - better than what we have now without being too burdensome I believe so.