Warrior General Games

Originally posted by blln4lyf
Replace "fake" with leading to the defender to lose balance. A four year old baby CAN turn and cause even a grown man(usually the dad) planning on the ground with him to reach in the wrong direction.
Already happens in the sim, as I keep saying again and again and again. Moreover, you guys really shouldn't use the word "fake" if you don't mean what a "fake" signifies in GLB.


Originally posted by jrry32
This is true but the problem is if you can't shrink the guy while making those cuts. Do you really think that guys never fall down or lose their balance while trying to change their direction after a HB makes a great cutback?
*sigh* Pursuing defenders with insufficient agility already slow down considerably when attempting to mirror a ball carrier making a significant change of direction. That's already in there. You don't need the dot to freeze or shrink, since that's not even realistic.

Originally posted by bhall43
Originally posted by bhall43

i have to ask...why would they even need soft capped strength if their main goal is to run away from defenders?o_O

seriously...i see all these guys mentioning that strength shouldn't play a role in anything for elusives...yet they still think they should first cap it at least? why? whats the point?



I would at least cap it to help with fumble prevention (when taking Carrying to 68 min) - for the slim possibility to break a tackle in the open field (you fake a defender - that same defender shouldn't be able to arm tackle you or dive tackle you)... And I would never spend points in the Cover-Up SA.

Now if you want to build truly a Strengthless HB... Then I would say that this HB would definitely have to spend pts in Cover Up... Or AEQ that would prevent fumbles.

***AEQ to help prevent fumbles would be dumb IMO because you need AEQ in Fake % or the Elusive SA tree in order for the back we are talking about to even be feasible***

Originally posted by Bukowski
So why don't you comment on the LB thing?

They are a terrible example.

Go build a RB with 5 68 attributes, they won't be anything except for shitty.

LBs do need SAs. Every good LB I've coached has SAs.

LBs don't need as many, but they need more attributes, so it's a wash imo.

They also have a shitload more responsibilities.

Originally posted by Phil Jackson
Originally posted by Bukowski

You're fucking lost.

Everyone is telling you that you're lost, not me.

I know all about LBs - you can build them like that because their SAs are shit. Elusive Backs actually need SAs, and a lot of them.

You truly are just talking out of your ass at this point kurieg. The whole point of this elusive argument is that they need a shit ton of SA's and LB's need absolutely no SA's.

Clearly you are lacking in build knowledge.


Actually it's you guys who seem way off the reservation to me...I really have no idea what you are trying to accomplish at this point.



If you could sum it up without the insults, that might be helpful.

Originally posted by jrry32
Originally posted by tautology

Originally posted by blln4lyf


Originally posted by jrry32



Originally posted by jdbolick




Instead of adding an inherent ability to fake, what about if Head Fake and Juke could be affected by agility itself? Maybe it could work in conjunction with the carrying attribute, or perhaps it could be an "or" situation where the highest of the two is used for the roll. That and continued improvement of pathing would make agility a lot more attractive.

The problem with that is that before a RB gets those SAs, they are useless, that's why agility should give them an inherent ability to fake. My power RB with no SAs can break like 90 tackles in 90 carries but an elusive guy can't use his agility to make people miss until he gets SAs? Does that not seem messed up? Strength gives you an inherent ability to break tackles but agility shouldn't give you an inherent ability to fake guys?

I honestly think he just doesn't get it, or that the sim has led him to believe that it is working as intended. The sim has had faking as only possible through a SA forever that it seems like he does not grasp that even a 4 month old baby can attempt a fake and that it should be inherent at a small effectiveness.

Firstly, what is really the difference between have a very low fake chance, and no chance? No enough to get worked up over.

Second of all, you can get 1 point in all the fake SAs with your custom gear.

Is this really worth all the fuss you are making over it? Conceptually i can see your point...in terms of how much it actually matters...very little I think? Unless for some reason you want this to be a strong effect, in which case that's a whole different discussion.





I think that a guy with 90-100 agility but no points in SAs should be able to make dots lose their balance using quick cuts and cutbacks like a guy with similar agility can do with Head Fake(but of course the guy with Head Fake and Juke should use more fakes because they can also use HF and Juke). So I am saying the higher your agility gets, the stronger it gets. Vision would also help it. So a guy with 100 agility and 80 vision could be quite great at faking guys out even if he only has 1 HF and 1 Juke because of his ability to make quick cuts and cutback to make people lose their balance and fake them out just like a Power Hb with 110 strength can break a lot of tackles.

And to the point that if the QC's/cutbacks actually caused defenders to react this way without the inherent fake ability I would all for it as well. Just this should be possible. At the moment why would you ever give a back 100 agility?

Originally posted by bhall43
Originally posted by jrry32

I think that a guy with 90-100 agility but no points in SAs should be able to make dots lose their balance using quick cuts and cutbacks like a guy with similar agility can do with Head Fake(but of course the guy with Head Fake and Juke should use more fakes because they can also use HF and Juke). So I am saying the higher your agility gets, the stronger it gets. Vision would also help it. So a guy with 100 agility and 80 vision could be quite great at faking guys out even if he only has 1 HF and 1 Juke because of his ability to make quick cuts and cutback to make people lose their balance and fake them out just like a Power Hb with 110 strength can break a lot of tackles.

would help the elusive build out a ton for these guys imo.

Yep, I am NOT saying an elusive RB should be able to use Head Fake or Juke without points in it but like Power RBs can break tackles without Power Thru, I think Elusive RBs should be able to fake without HF or Juke.

Originally posted by blln4lyf
By a big/monster hit, sure. The less strength you have the more the big/monster hit would effect you.

seems pretty reasonable.

Originally posted by kurieg
Originally posted by Bukowski

So why don't you comment on the LB thing?

They are a terrible example.

Go build a RB with 5 68 attributes, they won't be anything except for shitty.

LBs do need SAs. Every good LB I've coached has SAs.

LBs don't need as many, but they need more attributes, so it's a wash imo.

They also have a shitload more responsbilities.

LBs are completely different than RBs.

Elusive backs need a ton of Speed, Agility, Carrying, SAs, etc. And by that, I don't mean 68. They are NOTHING like a LB build, which shouldn't be that hard to comprehend.

Originally posted by kurieg
LBs do need SAs. .

This post is just highlighting the fact you are clueless.

Originally posted by Phil Jackson
You truly are just talking out of your ass at this point kurieg. The whole point of this elusive argument is that they need a shit ton of SA's and LB's need absolutely no SA's.

Clearly you are lacking in build knowledge.

Uh, nope, D MVP World League no, top 5 MLB WL last 2 seasons no. Seriously, you really don't know.

Originally posted by blln4lyf
Originally posted by jrry32

Originally posted by tautology


Originally posted by blln4lyf



Originally posted by jrry32




Originally posted by jdbolick





Instead of adding an inherent ability to fake, what about if Head Fake and Juke could be affected by agility itself? Maybe it could work in conjunction with the carrying attribute, or perhaps it could be an "or" situation where the highest of the two is used for the roll. That and continued improvement of pathing would make agility a lot more attractive.

The problem with that is that before a RB gets those SAs, they are useless, that's why agility should give them an inherent ability to fake. My power RB with no SAs can break like 90 tackles in 90 carries but an elusive guy can't use his agility to make people miss until he gets SAs? Does that not seem messed up? Strength gives you an inherent ability to break tackles but agility shouldn't give you an inherent ability to fake guys?

I honestly think he just doesn't get it, or that the sim has led him to believe that it is working as intended. The sim has had faking as only possible through a SA forever that it seems like he does not grasp that even a 4 month old baby can attempt a fake and that it should be inherent at a small effectiveness.

Firstly, what is really the difference between have a very low fake chance, and no chance? No enough to get worked up over.

Second of all, you can get 1 point in all the fake SAs with your custom gear.

Is this really worth all the fuss you are making over it? Conceptually i can see your point...in terms of how much it actually matters...very little I think? Unless for some reason you want this to be a strong effect, in which case that's a whole different discussion.





I think that a guy with 90-100 agility but no points in SAs should be able to make dots lose their balance using quick cuts and cutbacks like a guy with similar agility can do with Head Fake(but of course the guy with Head Fake and Juke should use more fakes because they can also use HF and Juke). So I am saying the higher your agility gets, the stronger it gets. Vision would also help it. So a guy with 100 agility and 80 vision could be quite great at faking guys out even if he only has 1 HF and 1 Juke because of his ability to make quick cuts and cutback to make people lose their balance and fake them out just like a Power Hb with 110 strength can break a lot of tackles.

And to the point that if the QC's/cutbacks actually caused defenders to react this way without the inherent fake ability I would all for it as well. Just this should be possible. At the moment why would you ever give a back 100 agility?

You wouldn't. I am talking if they ever made cutbacks and quick cuts work/effective.

Originally posted by tautology

Actually it's you guys who seem way off the reservation to me...I really have no idea what you are trying to accomplish at this point.



If you could sum it up without the insults, that might be helpful.





Opposite of Stern, I think you hit the enter key wayyy too many times

Originally posted by kurieg
Originally posted by Bukowski

Which part? the 44 Strength part?

I'm sure he was a strong guy, but I thought he was talking about how he would translate to GLB?

If so, he wouldn't be able to have super high attributes all across the board.

44 is not super high in anything. 61 is not super high in anything.

Originally posted by Bukowski

You're fucking lost.

Everyone is telling you that you're lost, not me.

I know all about LBs - you can build them like that because their SAs are shit. Elusive Backs actually need SAs, and a lot of them.

Actually, it's mostly just the offense guys telling me that. Shocking, eh?

Because I don't OC and DC..

Originally posted by Phil Jackson
This post is just highlighting the fact you are clueless.

No, you.


Seriously.

Originally posted by David Stern
You don't get it TBH. It isn't compelling to you because you "DONT GET IT'... Go watch a 5th grade football game, the running backs can fake just as well if not better than the other 5th graders can tackle. In glb a back can't fake until a substantial investment into sa's. Do you think a lb'er should need to invest in sa's to be able to tackle?
You're talking out of your ass, because that's completely untrue. Faking/juking defenders is a skill that only a minority of running backs possess, and even fewer are "great" at. Most HBs at any level don't even try to fake defenders except on rare occasions, and many fail when they make that attempt.