Warrior General Games

Originally posted by tautology
Originally posted by Bukowski

Originally posted by David Stern


Originally posted by kurieg



61 Strength is retarded for a combo or power back. It's not even worth mentioning.

This is what I don't get.

Barry sanders would have been 105 speed 105 agility 80 vision 73 carry 44 str.


Why should super elusive backs need str? With all that agility/vision they should be able to avoid hits, and make plays. If you are saying 61 str is retarded for a hb in this current sim to be productive, i agree, but this is clearly not a case of working as intended, and shouldn't be the case.

Exactly.


You know nothing of Barry Sanders if you think this for even a moment.





Which part? the 44 Strength part?

I'm sure he was a strong guy, but I thought he was talking about how he would translate to GLB?

If so, he wouldn't be able to have super high attributes all across the board.

Originally posted by Bort
LOL, I wasn't trying to start an argument over what constitutes an elusive back, but I guess I did just that by asking for one. Now do you see what I mean about being hard to sort through the arguing to get the meat?

Deathblade (or somebody), maybe you can sum up the results for me later so I can try some stuff? I'm going to go eat some foods.

what's for dinner?

Originally posted by tautology
Originally posted by blln4lyf

Originally posted by jrry32


Originally posted by jdbolick



Instead of adding an inherent ability to fake, what about if Head Fake and Juke could be affected by agility itself? Maybe it could work in conjunction with the carrying attribute, or perhaps it could be an "or" situation where the highest of the two is used for the roll. That and continued improvement of pathing would make agility a lot more attractive.

The problem with that is that before a RB gets those SAs, they are useless, that's why agility should give them an inherent ability to fake. My power RB with no SAs can break like 90 tackles in 90 carries but an elusive guy can't use his agility to make people miss until he gets SAs? Does that not seem messed up? Strength gives you an inherent ability to break tackles but agility shouldn't give you an inherent ability to fake guys?

I honestly think he just doesn't get it, or that the sim has led him to believe that it is working as intended. The sim has had faking as only possible through a SA forever that it seems like he does not grasp that even a 4 month old baby can attempt a fake and that it should be inherent at a small effectiveness.

Firstly, what is really the difference between have a very low fake chance, and no chance? No enough to get worked up over.

Second of all, you can get 1 point in all the fake SAs with your custom gear.

Is this really worth all the fuss you are making over it? Conceptually i can see your point...in terms of how much it actually matters...very little I think? Unless for some reason you want this to be a strong effect, in which case that's a whole different discussion.





I think that a guy with 90-100 agility but no points in SAs should be able to make dots lose their balance using quick cuts and cutbacks like a guy with similar agility can do with Head Fake(but of course the guy with Head Fake and Juke should use more fakes because they can also use HF and Juke). So I am saying the higher your agility gets, the stronger it gets. Vision would also help it. So a guy with 100 agility and 80 vision could be quite great at faking guys out even if he only has 1 HF and 1 Juke because of his ability to make quick cuts and cutback to make people lose their balance and fake them out just like a Power Hb with 110 strength can break a lot of tackles.

Originally posted by jdbolick
Originally posted by blln4lyf

I honestly think he just doesn't get it, or that the sim has led him to believe that it is working as intended. The sim has had faking as only possible through a SA forever that it seems like he does not grasp that even a 4 month old baby can attempt a fake and that it should be inherent at a small effectiveness.
A 4 month old baby cannot attempt a fake. And if you give an inherent ability to attempt fakes, then you also have to implement consequences for failing those attempts. If you or I went out to the nearest field and tried to fake someone out, we'd not only come to a stop when doing so, but most likely fall on our asses. Please don't start with the "just doesn't get it" crap, especially after what we've been through today. If you don't like my explanation and want to continue disagreeing, that's fine, but nothing you have said is difficult to grasp, it just isn't a compelling argument.

Replace "fake" with leading to the defender to lose balance. A four year old baby CAN turn and cause even a grown man(usually the dad) planning on the ground with him to reach in the wrong direction.

Originally posted by David Stern
This is what I don't get. Barry sanders would have been 105 speed 105 agility 80 vision 73 carry 44 str.
Did you miss the point where I said that Barry Sanders set the leg press record for the Oklahoma State football team? Pull up any picture of him on Google and tell me that he wasn't bristling with muscles. The dude was very strong, he just wasn't big.

Originally posted by jdbolick

A 4 month old baby cannot attempt a fake. And if you give an inherent ability to attempt fakes, then you also have to implement consequences for failing those attempts. If you or I went out to the nearest field and tried to fake someone out, we'd not only come to a stop when doing so, but most likely fall on our asses. Please don't start with the "just doesn't get it" crap, especially after what we've been through today. If you don't like my explanation and want to continue disagreeing, that's fine, but nothing you have said is difficult to grasp, it just isn't a compelling argument.

You don't get it TBH. It isn't compelling to you because you "DONT GET IT'... Go watch a 5th grade football game, the running backs can fake just as well if not better than the other 5th graders can tackle. In glb a back can't fake until a substantial investment into sa's. Do you think a lb'er should need to invest in sa's to be able to tackle?

Originally posted by Bort
LOL, I wasn't trying to start an argument over what constitutes an elusive back, but I guess I did just that by asking for one. Now do you see what I mean about being hard to sort through the arguing to get the meat?

Deathblade (or somebody), maybe you can sum up the results for me later so I can try some stuff? I'm going to go eat some foods.

enjoying the snow here in Portland Bort?

Originally posted by Bukowski
Which part? the 44 Strength part?

I'm sure he was a strong guy, but I thought he was talking about how he would translate to GLB?

If so, he wouldn't be able to have super high attributes all across the board.

44 is not super high in anything. 61 is not super high in anything.

Originally posted by Meatdawg
48 str should be PLENTY for a elusive hb.

As soon as you start going to the 2nd cap, you become a power back. I am sick of being forced to 2nd cap str on elusive hb's because it has become the "norm"

60 isn't high...

60 is barely adequate for any relevant attributes on a level 70 player.

Originally posted by Meatdawg
48 str should be PLENTY for a elusive hb.

As soon as you start going to the 2nd cap, you become a power back. I am sick of being forced to 2nd cap str on elusive hb's because it has become the "norm"

This is what I have been trying to say the entire thread, kurieg seems to think elusive = combo however or just truly does not understand the concept of building a HB.

Originally posted by kurieg
Originally posted by Bukowski

That's what I'm saying.

Why should a RB need 2 high attributes + an SA to hold on to the ball?

61 is not High.

Build a 5 68+ attribute LB and come talk to me. You're lost and clueless.

You're fucking lost.

Everyone is telling you that you're lost, not me.

I know all about LBs - you can build them like that because their SAs are shit. Elusive Backs actually need SAs, and a lot of them.

Originally posted by jdbolick

Did you miss the point where I said that Barry Sanders set the leg press record for the Oklahoma State football team? Pull up any picture of him on Google and tell me that he wasn't bristling with muscles. The dude was very strong, he just wasn't big.



his legs were like 5 inches long. Short dudes don't have to go very far, last time I checked leg press wasn't an actual lift that matters in football.

Bench clean squat

Originally posted by David Stern
This is what I don't get.

Barry sanders would have been 105 speed 105 agility 80 vision 73 carry 44 str.


Why should super elusive backs need str? With all that agility/vision they should be able to avoid hits, and make plays. If you are saying 61 str is retarded for a hb in this current sim to be productive, i agree, but this is clearly not a case of working as intended, and shouldn't be the case.

Barry Sanders benched 360 and squatted 557.....kinda strong

Originally posted by jdbolick
Originally posted by jrry32

I don't know how many times I can explain this to you, a RB shouldn't have to make a juke or head fake move to make a defender get faked out. Having the ability to use your agility to cutback or make quick cuts should also allow guys to be faked(or lose their balance)
IT ALREADY DOES. Seriously, do you just not watch replays? I keep pointing out punt returns because they're the best examples of this. Whenever the returner takes a wide cut away from the defender, and that defender has to adjust his angle to pursue, he slows down in order to do so. How much he slows down when making that cut is determined by his agility, just as the HB's ability to make the initial cut is determined by their agility. This stuff is already in the sim. Like Deathblade said long ago, the real problem is just in how elusive runners make cuts.


This is true but the problem is if you can't shrink the guy while making those cuts. Do you really think that guys never fall down or lose their balance while trying to change their direction after a HB makes a great cutback?