Warrior General Games

Originally posted by DONKEIDIC
Originally posted by Kirghiz

LOL How do you figure?

Originally posted by DONKEIDIC

So let me get this straight. You are saying we should Group teams by how good they are. But also have a level cap. Maybe even name the different leagues something like Elite, Competitive, and regular. Then level 70 players can't beat up on level 46 players?

Was I close? I may be a bit slow, but something about that seems very familiar...

Saying that makes it similar to what we have is like saying a Raven is very similar to a Panther because they are both black.

Originally posted by Kirghiz
Saying that makes it similar to what we have is like saying a Raven is very similar to a Panther because they are both black.

No it does not.

If you plan on using an example it would be more like:

I was saying that raven is close to a crow because both have iridescent black feathers, long pointed beaks, and they both make annoying type squawking sounds.

Originally posted by Kirghiz
Saying that makes it similar to what we have is like saying a Raven is very similar to a Panther because they are both black.

How about you explain to me how they are different instead?

Originally posted by DONKEIDIC
How about you explain to me how they are different instead?

The main thing is that you don't have a static number of teams that must be filled, which is the thing that makes the competition in AA and AAA so bad, and makes Pro leagues have a definite caste system of haves and have nots. This does not have that.

It is the current Minor League system applied to the top levels. The current minor league system works pretty well in case you haven't noticed. Elite Minors are some of the most competitive leagues in the entire game. The big change is removing the pyramid, but it does retain the elements that currently work. If something is working, why would you change that and reinvent the wheel instead?

Originally posted by Kirghiz
The main thing is that you don't have a static number of teams that must be filled, which is the thing that makes the competition in AA and AAA so bad, and makes Pro leagues have a definite caste system of haves and have nots. This does not have that.

It is the current Minor League system applied to the top levels. The current minor league system works pretty well in case you haven't noticed. Elite Minors are some of the most competitive leagues in the entire game. The big change is removing the pyramid, but it does retain the elements that currently work. If something is working, why would you change that and reinvent the wheel instead?

Thanks. I do agree AA and even AAA have horrible competition. They need to be trimmed back like weeds.

How would this handle promotion?

The caps work because you are forced up two per season. So this will be like Pro AAA AA but instead of a pyramid it will be a flat level. AA teams that are high levels will play in Regular Pro, while AAA teams will play in Competitive Pro, and PRO/WL caliber will play in Elite Pro?

How does one make it from a regular cap to an elite cap? There was a team that went 20-0 in the regular cap leagues, but was left there the next season at the next cap.

This seems like much more of a caste system than Pro AAA AA steup.

Something has to be done, one way or the other.

8 seasons / 10 months of shitty games chases away all the new players, p quick

This was always the problem with the pyramid even before season 11 when players began declining. Now it is compounded by the decline.

32 Teams in Pro, 10 teams sell back/relegate due to decline

64 teams in AAA, 20 teams in the two leagues sell back/relegate also due to decline, but ten need to promote to Pro to fill those holes, so AAA needs 30 teams to fill. Using the current method of promotion, the conference champions plus the best two runner ups in Conf. Championship games will promote to Pro from each AAA league.

128 teams in AA, 20 teams sell back/relegate due to piss poor competition, but 30 teams out of the AA leagues need to move up to AAA, so AA is now down 50 teams. Basically you need the top 7 or 8 teams from each league to move up. Win just one playoff game and that is you.

Now, the fact that AA now needs 50 teams to fill itself, and you multiply that by 8 pyramids, and all of a sudden you need to pull 400 teams out of 42 and 46 cap minors. There are only a combined 13 leagues in 42 and 46 cap currently, 416 teams. There aren't even enough teams to support this system currently, but if extended plateau ever happens there will be and than some.

Now if the leagues were floating and could be expanded or contracted as needed on day 41 you no longer need to force promote teams to fill voids. We could go back to the old system of earning your way to Pro rather than inheriting it like we have now.

There is also going to be a hiccup in the system about 7 or 8 seasons from now when the generation of players that qualified for the refunds last season find that they are the best dots in the game, and there isn't near as many of them as usual because their agents took the refunds for the archetypes. There is going to be a massive contraction when this time comes, there has to be, and than the following seasons when the archetype dots get up there it is going to be an explosion of sorts when that huge wave of players gets there.

The way you keep your leagues separated is by using the rivalry point system that Bort came up with last season or the season before. This system takes into account who you played, how well they played you, and than you can in turn match up with other teams that played the same team well, and you can come up with fairly reliable rankings.

If team A plays team B to a 26-20 score that is a good match. If team B plays team C to a 31-21 score, but team C did not play team A, team B and C are a good match, but team A and C are also a good match because of how well they played their common opponents. Compound that out to thousands of teams and thousands of common opponents and you can see how effective that could be. It also keeps teams together that play each other well, which helps sustain rivalries, which is another added advantage to this system.

Basically it's the Kevin Bacon game where you can tie everyone back to him. The minors are basically structured this way now, at least that is how I understand the rivalry point system, and it has worked very well so far. Do that from top to bottom and every league would theoretically be about as close as they can be in level of competition.

Hehe Donkiedic, your quote was from an older version posted on the 27th, not the newer Version 2 on the 29th that I think more like (link at bottom). I am currently working on Version 3 with some new ideas I have seen that I liked and think will work. So altering and changing again.

How I more or less see promotion. Lets start with a new team owner. He would start with his team in PeeWee bronze. This gives him experience vs other new teams starting over, on equal footing. At seasons end, he made the playoffs, but went out early. Now he has an option, stay in PeeWee and move up to Silver or move up to the next tier level into Competitive Cap 16. He moved up and over as he was a playoff team. This season he gets clobbered. He would still get promoted up to cap 24, but demoted to a regular league. In his third season he destroys and wins out. He has the option to move up two leagues (bad choice but its there for league winners) and will be moved to Elite. He chooses to go up one and across to Elite.

What it breaks down to is playoff teams move up and to higher competition levels. Non playoff teams still move up, but will drop to less competitive leagues. What the formula for determining teams score as far as what level they are at is undetermined at this time other than SP Value, Age and Effective level. Once in the Pro's playoff teams move to the stronger leagues, non playoff moves to less competitive. Ill have more later when V3 is done. And CPU's could be shifted out the way without affecting the human teams.

Version 2
http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3971564&page=18

Originally posted by Vortus
Hehe Donkiedic, your quote was from an older version posted on the 27th, not the newer Version 2 on the 29th that I think more like (link at bottom). I am currently working on Version 3 with some new ideas I have seen that I liked and think will work. So altering and changing again.

How I more or less see promotion. Lets start with a new team owner. He would start with his team in PeeWee bronze. This gives him experience vs other new teams starting over, on equal footing. At seasons end, he made the playoffs, but went out early. Now he has an option, stay in PeeWee and move up to Silver or move up to the next tier level into Competitive Cap 16. He moved up and over as he was a playoff team. This season he gets clobbered. He would still get promoted up to cap 24, but demoted to a regular league. In his third season he destroys and wins out. He has the option to move up two leagues (bad choice but its there for league winners) and will be moved to Elite. He chooses to go up one and across to Elite.

What it breaks down to is playoff teams move up and to higher competition levels. Non playoff teams still move up, but will drop to less competitive leagues. What the formula for determining teams score as far as what level they are at is undetermined at this time other than SP Value, Age and Effective level. Once in the Pro's playoff teams move to the stronger leagues, non playoff moves to less competitive. Ill have more later when V3 is done. And CPU's could be shifted out the way without affecting the human teams.

Version 2
http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3971564&page=18

Thanks for the clarification. We all agree something needs to be done. I'll look it over and post any feedback I have.

Originally posted by jamz
Something has to be done, one way or the other.

8 seasons / 10 months of shitty games chases away all the new players, p quick

i agree but you can't force anyone, let alone everyone, to be competitive.

Originally posted by Kirghiz


The way you keep your leagues separated is by using the rivalry point system that Bort came up with last season or the season before. This system takes into account who you played, how well they played you, and than you can in turn match up with other teams that played the same team well, and you can come up with fairly reliable rankings.


His system is awful. It doesn't do the essential thing of driving teams that had score differences of over 100 away from each other.

Teams can change drastically from season to season (actually day to day), this is why simply adding a rivalry system is a failure waiting to happen.

What's this about a rivalry system? WTF? Rivalries aren't something you can code. They're born of the blood, sweat and tears of dots on the field, and (more importantly) the agents behind them.

I definitely support a system wherein AA and AAA are fluid and not static in number. Getting a team to that level should mean you've spent enough cash to not have to face CPUs.