Warrior General Games

Originally posted by DigitalDaggers
It does seem like fluid is a good system

i wonder how long it would take to create an ALG to rank all the teams in GLB from top to bottom...would likely be necessary for a fluid system...

The base is already there. Some of the firefox scripts are not that bad at predicting the games. I would take a teams average SP value, average age and average effective level, along with the teams lifetime regular season and playoff record. Or at least within the past 4 seasons. With a win being 1 point, a loss -1 point, a playoff win +5 points, playoff loss +1 point and winning the cup +10. The leagues would have to have hard value caps start each season to prevent what donkei is mentioning from repeating itself.

My own method I use is a teams SP value, anything within 50 is even. Anything between 50 and 80 is still good odds. 80 to 100, a tough match, 100 to 120 difference, gonna take some serious planning and luck, 120+ difference, good luck. Of course there are always aberrations. But, then when you add a teams average age to the total, it adjusts that difference up or down appropriately, and then the life time record of wins and loss's helps show a teams overall potential. IE even if a current WL team and a new owner were to start at the same time. The WL team would be ALOT higher ranked due to the win's, as they should be as they should know what they are doing. Though I just looked at teams recent history when judging them, not adding up wins and loss's etc.

Even with just the SP value, age, and effective level its not to bad of judge compared to the current system. The fluid system would allow teams to do what they want and play similar competition. And, once it was set, they should stay roughly against that same competition as they move up through the system. As if they are improving, they should advance. If they are not, then they will not as they do not deserve to. Win, move up, lose, you don't. And the level caps would keep poor level 70 teams from facing good level 46 teams etc.

Monsterkill, ddcunderground, Pabst, Griffin8r and NiborRis would prob be the guys to have a good idea exactly what formula to use.

Originally posted by Vortus
The base is already there. Some of the firefox scripts are not that bad at predicting the games. I would take a teams average SP value, average age and average effective level, along with the teams lifetime regular season and playoff record. Or at least within the past 4 seasons. With a win being 1 point, a loss -1 point, a playoff win +5 points, playoff loss +1 point and winning the cup +10. The leagues would have to have hard value caps start each season to prevent what donkei is mentioning from repeating itself.

My own method I use is a teams SP value, anything within 50 is even. Anything between 50 and 80 is still good odds. 80 to 100, a tough match, 100 to 120 difference, gonna take some serious planning and luck, 120+ difference, good luck. Of course there are always aberrations. But, then when you add a teams average age to the total, it adjusts that difference up or down appropriately, and then the life time record of wins and loss's helps show a teams overall potential. IE even if a current WL team and a new owner were to start at the same time. The WL team would be ALOT higher ranked due to the win's, as they should be as they should know what they are doing. Though I just looked at teams recent history when judging them, not adding up wins and loss's etc.

Even with just the SP value, age, and effective level its not to bad of judge compared to the current system. The fluid system would allow teams to do what they want and play similar competition. And, once it was set, they should stay roughly against that same competition as they move up through the system. As if they are improving, they should advance. If they are not, then they will not as they do not deserve to. Win, move up, lose, you don't. And the level caps would keep poor level 70 teams from facing good level 46 teams etc.

So let me get this straight. You are saying we should Group teams by how good they are. But also have a level cap. Maybe even name the different leagues something like Elite, Competitive, and regular. Then level 70 players can't beat up on level 46 players?

Was I close? I may be a bit slow, but something about that seems very familiar...

Originally posted by Vortus
Monsterkill, ddcunderground, Pabst, Griffin8r and NiborRis would prob be the guys to have a good idea exactly what formula to use.

griffin8r quit

Yes, I am saying teams should be grouped by skill and level. And that the system should be fluid to handle teams getting better or worse, along with increasing SP value or decreasing as in gutting. As I said, alot of good ideas, but none are perfect. I took ideas from everyone. I do not care what they call it, nor do I care who gets credit. I want good games just like what I have now to continue till I no longer am playing the game.


Something similar to the points I showed was how I graded my tournament entries, and will do something similar next season to get the closest group available, though a bit more efficient I think. As I did find some flaws but they were not critical. Mostly with my checking on teams history and changes. Which, without a script or anything and doing it manually took some time and I got a bit....hasty.

Originally posted by Vortus
Elite Pro #1
Elite Pro #2
Competitive Pro #3
Competitive Pro #4
Pro #5
Pro #6

Elite Cap 64 #1
Elite Cap 64 #2
Competitive Cap 64 #3
Competitive Cap 64 #4
Cap 64 #5
Cap 64 #6


Elite Cap 56 #1
Elite Cap 56 #2
Competitive Cap 56 #3
Competitive Cap 56 #4
Cap 56 #5
Cap 56 #6

The remainder of the lower leagues stay the same. Using the same system as in the current lower league elite system. Using the plain Cap leagues to shuttle bad teams, gutted teams, each of the main leagues at each cap could be full each season. Simple, effective, and rivalries would be maintained as teams worked up through the ladder together. And it gets rid of teams way outleveling others as there is a cap level for each.

Why multiple Pro leagues. Because not all Pro teams are created equal. But they are still better than lower leveled teams for the most part. Its so that each is played competition that is equal to themselves. Why have them (Elite/Competitive/Normal) in the lower leagues? In general, the teams from the Elite leagues are better than the teams in the competitive leagues. An Elite 42 is likely as good as a competitive 46, and it helps track where they should be as they move up.

Not as simple as just removing the regions. Also have to arrange the new leagues like the lower leagues are now. But when your are playing good competition the league trophy will mean something to you no matter what its called. If there are flaws in it, feel free to poke holes with something other than sarcasm.

Teams that don't compete are moved down to lower tiers either sideways from the higher Elite/Competition caps to the Regular caps or down level caps entirely if the roster does not meet the minimum standards set for each league .

Teams that are good move up either to higher leveled leagues, or sideways toward the Elite leagues.

Extending the caps all the way up will force teams to play where they need to be. No more 70's in AA.

Once in the Pro's, teams move sideways across the scale. Working up to the Elite leagues, or down to the Regular.

Teams that gut or rebuild have options on how far they want to drop down based on the levels of the players they want. Drop all the way down, or drop to a 42 cap, or a 56 cap.

Make the number of leagues at each level adjustable based on need, make a few adjustments to caps and stuff here and there, and this is generally the best idea I've seen.

Originally posted by Kirghiz
Originally posted by Vortus

Elite Pro #1
Elite Pro #2
Competitive Pro #3
Competitive Pro #4
Pro #5
Pro #6

Elite Cap 64 #1
Elite Cap 64 #2
Competitive Cap 64 #3
Competitive Cap 64 #4
Cap 64 #5
Cap 64 #6


Elite Cap 56 #1
Elite Cap 56 #2
Competitive Cap 56 #3
Competitive Cap 56 #4
Cap 56 #5
Cap 56 #6

The remainder of the lower leagues stay the same. Using the same system as in the current lower league elite system. Using the plain Cap leagues to shuttle bad teams, gutted teams, each of the main leagues at each cap could be full each season. Simple, effective, and rivalries would be maintained as teams worked up through the ladder together. And it gets rid of teams way outleveling others as there is a cap level for each.

Why multiple Pro leagues. Because not all Pro teams are created equal. But they are still better than lower leveled teams for the most part. Its so that each is played competition that is equal to themselves. Why have them (Elite/Competitive/Normal) in the lower leagues? In general, the teams from the Elite leagues are better than the teams in the competitive leagues. An Elite 42 is likely as good as a competitive 46, and it helps track where they should be as they move up.

Not as simple as just removing the regions. Also have to arrange the new leagues like the lower leagues are now. But when your are playing good competition the league trophy will mean something to you no matter what its called. If there are flaws in it, feel free to poke holes with something other than sarcasm.

Teams that don't compete are moved down to lower tiers either sideways from the higher Elite/Competition caps to the Regular caps or down level caps entirely if the roster does not meet the minimum standards set for each league .

Teams that are good move up either to higher leveled leagues, or sideways toward the Elite leagues.

Extending the caps all the way up will force teams to play where they need to be. No more 70's in AA.

Once in the Pro's, teams move sideways across the scale. Working up to the Elite leagues, or down to the Regular.

Teams that gut or rebuild have options on how far they want to drop down based on the levels of the players they want. Drop all the way down, or drop to a 42 cap, or a 56 cap.

Make the number of leagues at each level adjustable based on need, make a few adjustments to caps and stuff here and there, and this is generally the best idea I've seen.



With teams always progressing and getting better, how is there ever a top level? The game has made a system where eventually every team will climb the ladder and you will have to make more and more leagues. The system should be flipped around and have leagues with set teams and have the players move up... not the teams. i will say it again a draft would be nice.

PS

Since we are PAYING customers in most cases, you are obligated to reply to a paying customers post. Maybe you should hire a team of people who filter your posts, but reply to the "crazy" posts as well.

Use a fluid system to build your leagues.

Move from a round robin schedule to the NFL schedule format. NFL schedule is fluid and creates rivals while making sure teams are playing like teams for competition.

Instead of the regions being the frame work for the leagues like it is currently. Move the regions inside the leagues structure to create 8 subdivisions of 4 teams one for each region.

The following season the fluid system looks at the teams again but you give them more weight to end up in the same sub division that they were in last season. Also rivals should have weight to end up in the same league.

Originally posted by Vortus

Elite Pro #1
Elite Pro #2
Competitive Pro #3
Competitive Pro #4
Pro #5
Pro #6

Elite Cap 64 #1
Elite Cap 64 #2
Competitive Cap 64 #3
Competitive Cap 64 #4
Cap 64 #5
Cap 64 #6


Elite Cap 56 #1
Elite Cap 56 #2
Competitive Cap 56 #3
Competitive Cap 56 #4
Cap 56 #5
Cap 56 #6

The remainder of the lower leagues stay the same. Using the same system as in the current lower league elite system. Using the plain Cap leagues to shuttle bad teams, gutted teams, each of the main leagues at each cap could be full each season. Simple, effective, and rivalries would be maintained as teams worked up through the ladder together. And it gets rid of teams way outleveling others as there is a cap level for each.

Why multiple Pro leagues. Because not all Pro teams are created equal. But they are still better than lower leveled teams for the most part. Its so that each is played competition that is equal to themselves. Why have them (Elite/Competitive/Normal) in the lower leagues? In general, the teams from the Elite leagues are better than the teams in the competitive leagues. An Elite 42 is likely as good as a competitive 46, and it helps track where they should be as they move up.

Not as simple as just removing the regions. Also have to arrange the new leagues like the lower leagues are now. But when your are playing good competition the league trophy will mean something to you no matter what its called. If there are flaws in it, feel free to poke holes with something other than sarcasm.

Teams that don't compete are moved down to lower tiers either sideways from the higher Elite/Competition caps to the Regular caps or down level caps entirely if the roster does not meet the minimum standards set for each league .

Teams that are good move up either to higher leveled leagues, or sideways toward the Elite leagues.

Extending the caps all the way up will force teams to play where they need to be. No more 70's in AA.

Once in the Pro's, teams move sideways across the scale. Working up to the Elite leagues, or down to the Regular.

Teams that gut or rebuild have options on how far they want to drop down based on the levels of the players they want. Drop all the way down, or drop to a 42 cap, or a 56 cap.

I would love to see this done.

Group teams in groups of 32 based on who they have played close games with (rivalry points I think). Then Assign the caps to the league based on the average levels. Weed out the non boosters who are too far below the cap. Other than them, levels should be good because league groupings are based on playing close games.


Like I suggested a couple pages ago: http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3971564&page=27#35598864

It also has the benefit of using largely the same structures we have now.

I think I have brought up reducing roster sizes to 35 players before. Recruiting 35 good players is much easier than recruiting 55 good players. Most teams that have 55 players have 55 solid players that the owner either built or they gathered from their network. Most teams can only sign about 25 to 30 solid players and tend to have to lower their standards to fill the remaining positions.

Originally posted by Fumanchuchu
Group teams in groups of 32 based on who they have played close games with (rivalry points I think). Then Assign the caps to the league based on the average levels. Weed out the non boosters who are too far below the cap. Other than them, levels should be good because league groupings are based on playing close games.


I tend to think that lumping the teams into groups based on actual level is the first thing to do. By doing that you know what caps you need. From there you can fiddle around with records from previous seasons, effective levels, and rivalry point situations to build the leagues within the level caps to get the most balanced 32 teams into each league. The minors right now have some very competitive leagues, especially the elites. Bort has the formula pretty well figured out how to assign the teams to the leagues to get the most competitive situations.

The thing that needs to happen is the pyramid needs abolished and go to a floating league system like the Minors is currently so that you can increase or decrease leagues at the current Pro, AAA, and AA levels as needed. Right now only about 4 or 5 Pro leagues are needed, and perhaps 12 AAA leagues. That number is going to change radically next season with all the ragesells that are expected to happen, so even less leagues may be needed next season. Having said that, I tend to think that some sort of real extended plateau is going to happen eventually. If you have a three season plateau you will have three generations of players stagnating at the Pro level rather than one, so the time will likely return that more Pro and AAA leagues will be needed because of that. This gives you that flexibility.

What is more, by using a floating league format, if you have an inordinate number of team sell backs/relegations you don't have to force promote teams up to fill holes in static leagues. Instead you can just contract a league or two, and you only have to promote teams that should be promoted. No more 11-5 teams moving up anymore. In theory this would improve competition at the top levels because you would only have teams at those levels that actually belong there.

Basically this is what Vortus said, with a few tweaks. His idea is very close to what the game needs as written.

Originally posted by Kirghiz

Basically this is what Vortus said, with a few tweaks. His idea is very close to what the game needs as written.

Not knocking the idea, it just seems eerily similar to what is already in place.

Originally posted by DONKEIDIC
Not knocking the idea, it just seems eerily similar to what is already in place.

LOL How do you figure?

Originally posted by
Originally posted by Vortus

Elite Pro #1
Elite Pro #2
Competitive Pro #3
Competitive Pro #4
Pro #5
Pro #6

Elite Cap 64 #1
Elite Cap 64 #2
Competitive Cap 64 #3
Competitive Cap 64 #4
Cap 64 #5
Cap 64 #6


Elite Cap 56 #1
Elite Cap 56 #2
Competitive Cap 56 #3
Competitive Cap 56 #4
Cap 56 #5
Cap 56 #6

The remainder of the lower leagues stay the same. Using the same system as in the current lower league elite system. Using the plain Cap leagues to shuttle bad teams, gutted teams, each of the main leagues at each cap could be full each season. Simple, effective, and rivalries would be maintained as teams worked up through the ladder together. And it gets rid of teams way outleveling others as there is a cap level for each.

Why multiple Pro leagues. Because not all Pro teams are created equal. But they are still better than lower leveled teams for the most part. Its so that each is played competition that is equal to themselves. Why have them (Elite/Competitive/Normal) in the lower leagues? In general, the teams from the Elite leagues are better than the teams in the competitive leagues. An Elite 42 is likely as good as a competitive 46, and it helps track where they should be as they move up.

Not as simple as just removing the regions. Also have to arrange the new leagues like the lower leagues are now. But when your are playing good competition the league trophy will mean something to you no matter what its called. If there are flaws in it, feel free to poke holes with something other than sarcasm.

Teams that don't compete are moved down to lower tiers either sideways from the higher Elite/Competition caps to the Regular caps or down level caps entirely if the roster does not meet the minimum standards set for each league .

Teams that are good move up either to higher leveled leagues, or sideways toward the Elite leagues.

Extending the caps all the way up will force teams to play where they need to be. No more 70's in AA.

Let's shorten a players life that much more.

Originally posted by
Once in the Pro's, teams move sideways across the scale. Working up to the Elite leagues, or down to the Regular.

Teams that gut or rebuild have options on how far they want to drop down based on the levels of the players they want. Drop all the way down, or drop to a 42 cap, or a 56 cap.

So make it harder for a team to get to the Pros?