Warrior General Games

Originally posted by ANumber1Roy
I didn't read everything in this thread so hopefully I'm not posting something that is already been proposed. Here is my idea for upper league structure.

Top league would remain World League.

You had me up til here.

Originally posted by gocincinnati
This. Right here.

Apparently, rivalries are really important, until you reach the top level of the game.

Dots are fun, but the forums drive this game. The dots just give the people something to talk about in the forums, sometimes.

The WL forum SUCKS. Meanwhile, the communities that have been formed in some of the Pro forums are awesome. When somebody wins the league/conference, it's a bittersweet thing. You're happy about the achievement, but sad about leaving your friends behind.

Then you go get your ass handed to you, like as not... wind up 3-13, get demoted back where you came from, and again it's bittersweet. You're back among your friends again, but your once-dominant team just spend the last month and a half getting slobberknockered every other day. People are discouraged. Some will gut and reboot. Or merge to form a superpower.

JUST GET RID OF IT. The World League causes more problems than it solves.


You do realize that if they got rid of the WL, the teams in the WL will go somewhere don't you.

They will go to Pro and kick the crap out of the other Pro teams.

If you go with 2 leagues below the WL level, then you make it harder to get to WL, but you make it so that teams who go are more likely to deserve being there. You also add another level of competition.

It is easier to develop rivalries when you are playing a bunch of other teams that you could beat or lose to in any given SIM. I don't know about you, but I don't consider opponents that teams I'm a part of beat by 40+ pts every season to be rivals.

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
You do realize that if they got rid of the WL, the teams in the WL will go somewhere don't you.

They will go to Pro and kick the crap out of the other Pro teams.

If you go with 2 leagues below the WL level, then you make it harder to get to WL, but you make it so that teams who go are more likely to deserve being there. You also add another level of competition.

It is easier to develop rivalries when you are playing a bunch of other teams that you could beat or lose to in any given SIM. I don't know about you, but I don't consider opponents that teams I'm a part of beat by 40+ pts every season to be rivals.

Hey rage, you do realize that most of the 4 to 8 top WL teams are all associated with one or the other somehow, in someway and have plenty of farm teams right.. So they don't really recruit, because, well they don't have too.. So having 2 hemisphere Leagues is gonna make the Pro's, well more like a Regional Pro and so on down the chain.. If agents think that the competition is nil, than this will really make anything below the WL and (I'll call it) Hemisphere Leagues, nada.. So if you think this will make competition better, well, sure for the recommended 3 top leagues, but the rest of the leagues will have to suffer for a year and a half or so, just to field a team to compete at that level.. So yay for the veterans, and screw the rest.. Let's work on establishing a promotion system before we even think about restructure, please..

Originally posted by BobbyCox4Pres.
Hey rage, you do realize that most of the 4 to 8 top WL teams are all associated with one or the other somehow, in someway and have plenty of farm teams right.. So they don't really recruit, because, well they don't have too.. So having 2 hemisphere Leagues is gonna make the Pro's, well more like a Regional Pro and so on down the chain.. If agents think that the competition is nil, than this will really make anything below the WL and (I'll call it) Hemisphere Leagues, nada.. So if you think this will make competition better, well, sure for the recommended 3 top leagues, but the rest of the leagues will have to suffer for a year and a half or so, just to field a team to compete at that level.. So yay for the veterans, and screw the rest.. Let's work on establishing a promotion system before we even think about restructure, please..


Right now you have

Minors - Most people think feel this is working right now with the elite/competitive/regular structure right now up until regional Pro (nothing changes here. Competition remains the same)

Regional Pro - this is a huge mess right now because they haven't figured the best way to deal with it.

National Pro - currently highly non competitive. 2-5 teams from each conference have a legit shot a championship and 6-10 teams in each conference can't even stay within 40 pts of the teams that have a shot. Usually at least 5 teams have trouble staying within 100 pts of the top teams in the conference.



Take the top 64 non WL teams (the ones that are beating the crap out of the other 192 pro teams) and put them in a league together.

Then you get more competition at that level and at the National Pro level.

Those 64 teams are about even competition. They have a chance to win or lose just about any SIM. Of course some teams will be better than others, but you aren't going to have teams running through the conference winning 12 games by 50+ pts.

You take the top teams out of National Pro, and you have more teams that are able to compete with each other at that level. The teams that were running rough shod over the rest of the league are now gone.

You put a buffer between WL and what is now a watered down National Pro. WL teams demote to a league where they will still face competition. They won't be as likely to auto promote back to WL in the yo-yo fashion you see going on right now with many teams.



Hemispheres may not be the answer. However, if you don't do hemispheres, then the number of National Pro leagues needs to be cut down. Competition at the national pro level is a joke, and there are no regional Pro teams that are going to make competition better for the top 2-5 teams in each national pro conference.

Well now you take all the competitive National Pro teams into Hemisphere and now you have absolutely no competition in Regional and National Pro's.. Wow what a gap... And that's even if you take out 2 NPL's.. You'd have to take out 4 NPL's just to have a competitive NP.. It's already tough enough to recruit, if your not in someones,"organization" at the PRO level, I'm trying to see how this will make the NP's even worth playing in.. I mean I'd rather have 8 quality games than 2..

I vote to keep the pro level the way it is.

Originally posted by BobbyCox4Pres.
Well now you take all the competitive National Pro teams into Hemisphere and now you have absolutely no competition in Regional and National Pro's.

?????

You would have more competition in National Pro, just less quality.

Competitiveness is about balanced games, not the quality of the teams.

Put the teams dominating National Pro in their own leagues and have them play each other. - More competitive games

Remove the teams dominating a league and have the rest play each other. - More competitive games


You could go to 2 hemispheres and 6 continents. (N. America, S. America, Europe, Asia, Africa, Oceania)

Or if you don't want to add another layer, then just cut down to 6 continent leagues. At least you push the bottom teams out and put 1-2 more good teams in each pro conference.

So National Pro and Regional Pro would than be alike, with the same quality teams, with probably the same competitive games so why not just merge them and take out regional and etc. etc..... 6 continental Leagues sounds intriguing but that would have to go past the masses.. Now your taking out 2 leagues.. hmmmm..

The thing is you;re constantly changing the background of this game, and our plans always have to adapt, this essentially adds one season to a team's effort to get to the WL.

But in order to really have a competetive spirit and a sense of cohession in a leaguy you must have some sort of continuity. Plans to have half of the teams moving up or down from a league , and the league changing 100 or 75% of its members every damned season show how little you undesrtand the dynamics of this game.
You need to have a number of teams advancing or falling back in more or less the same "veertical" structure", in order to have a sense of coninuity and a sense of real camaraderie and rivalry at the same time.

and this you being the no2 man here is more than slightly worisome.

Currently the biggest concern is the WL. As it is beyond providing an obvious target foer everyoen that is really competetive it creates more problems than it solves. ditch it alltogether or include it in the restructuring.!

So if it wasnt obviosu I'm voting AGAINST this change.


PS
I'll seriosuly consider quiting the game alltogether if this change goes forward.
And this has as much to fo with this sweeping change as for the previosu 10 ones.
Does the f@@#@$up with the provided tools to the defense vs the attacking coordinators 2-3 seasons ago providing a huge advantage to the one side remind you anything?

yep. probably it should remind you that youkeep coming up with half-assed plans.

Originally posted by BobbyCox4Pres.
So National Pro and Regional Pro would than be alike, with the same quality teams, hmmmm..

No

Right now there are 256 National Pro teams

You would be taking the top 64 and putting them into 2 leagues (Basically - Elite National Pro)

Then you take the other 192 teams and put them in 6 leagues (Basically - Competitive National Pro)

You have the same 256 teams in National Pro you had before. The only difference is that you put the elite teams together, and the you have the non-elite teams playing each other.

Only teams from Elite National Pro (The hemisphere leagues) promote to WL, and WL demotes into those leagues.

The "competitive" National Pro (continental Pro) promotes to the elite National Pro (Hemispheres) and demotes to regional Pro. Regional Pro promotes to competitive National Pro.


National Pro teams would still be better than Regional Pro teams and they wouldn't be playing level 56-59 teams that promote from semi-pro. Most of them would be at least level 64-70 and those would be the very good 64-70 teams. You are just balancing the talent in a better fashion.

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
No

Right now there are 256 National Pro teams

You would be taking the top 64 and putting them into 2 leagues (Basically - Elite National Pro)

Then you take the other 192 teams and put them in 6 leagues (Basically - Competitive National Pro)

You have the same 256 teams in National Pro you had before. The only difference is that you put the elite teams together, and the you have the non-elite teams playing each other.

Only teams from Elite National Pro (The hemisphere leagues) promote to WL, and WL demotes into those leagues.

The "competitive" National Pro (continental Pro) promotes to the elite National Pro (Hemispheres) and demotes to regional Pro. Regional Pro promotes to competitive National Pro.


National Pro teams would still be better than Regional Pro teams and they wouldn't be playing level 56-59 teams that promote from semi-pro. Most of them would be at least level 64-70 and those would be the very good 64-70 teams. You are just balancing the talent in a better fashion.

Have you seen the Regional Pros lately? They have more quality teams than half the NPL's 192 remaining teams.. Having 6 NPL's sounds so much more competitive.. That's not to mention all the farm teams coming up.. The Hemispheres will just turn into another WL and you will have the same 16 teams competing year in year out.. One big organizational orgy... Change promotion..

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Originally posted by gocincinnati

This. Right here.

Apparently, rivalries are really important, until you reach the top level of the game.

Dots are fun, but the forums drive this game. The dots just give the people something to talk about in the forums, sometimes.

The WL forum SUCKS. Meanwhile, the communities that have been formed in some of the Pro forums are awesome. When somebody wins the league/conference, it's a bittersweet thing. You're happy about the achievement, but sad about leaving your friends behind.

Then you go get your ass handed to you, like as not... wind up 3-13, get demoted back where you came from, and again it's bittersweet. You're back among your friends again, but your once-dominant team just spend the last month and a half getting slobberknockered every other day. People are discouraged. Some will gut and reboot. Or merge to form a superpower.

JUST GET RID OF IT. The World League causes more problems than it solves.

You do realize that if they got rid of the WL, the teams in the WL will go somewhere don't you.

They will go to Pro and kick the crap out of the other Pro teams.

I'm fine with that. It'll sort itself out, naturally. Because instead of all the top talent being funneled into a 32-team league, it will once again be spread out across all Pro leagues.

I do kinda like the idea of some kind of World Tournament, though, and now they have the mechanism in place to easily do that with -- which they didn't before.

Originally posted by gocincinnati
I'm fine with that. It'll sort itself out, naturally. Because instead of all the top talent being funneled into a 32-team league, it will once again be spread out across all Pro leagues.

I do kinda like the idea of some kind of World Tournament, though, and now they have the mechanism in place to easily do that with -- which they didn't before.

Talent was never spread out across all Pro leagues, and when we had 8 Pro leagues with no WL most of the Pro leagues were dominated by 4-5 teams season after season. In some cases leagues were dominated by 2-3 teams. And I'm not talking about per conference, I'm talking about per league.

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Talent was never spread out across all Pro leagues, and when we had 8 Pro leagues with no WL most of the Pro leagues were dominated by 4-5 teams season after season. In some cases leagues were dominated by 2-3 teams. And I'm not talking about per conference, I'm talking about per league.

Exactly.

If you take a big "name" team, they will still recruit better than most (what little recruiting they actually do) regardless of whether they are WPL or just in some regular Pro league.

I like the existing regions - leave us some of the original identities.