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Forum > Game Changes Discussion > Announced Changes > Revision of Defensive Play Creator - Limiting Player Movement
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Sly
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Originally posted by Rage Kinard
The problem is that blocking is not how it is intended.

What happens is this vicious cycle

Bort creates a blocking logic
it is tested vs regular defenses and known blitzes to see if blocking works in a logical manner
a few extra blitzes are thrown at it to see if it still works logically
it gets implemented

DCs come up with a variety of blitzes and end up with some that cause the OL to block in a bugged manner based on the current code

Bort creates new blocking logic or tries to fix bugged blocking vs those blitzes
new/changed blocking logic is tested to see if bugged blocking is fixed
blocking is tested against standard defenses and other blitzes

New code gets implemented
DCs run 100s of new blitz schemes until the uncover blitzes that make new blocking mechanic work in a bugged manner

rinse, repeat

zone blocking has been tried. Inside out has been tried(current). Man up with backs picking up remainder has been tried.

Every time Bort changes the blocking scheme, there ends up being not only blitzes that beat it, but blitzes that cause bugged blocking by the OL.

Personally, I feel the best, most consistent blocking scheme, is the one that was in place this season but was changed in pre-season because OCs didn't want to keep a TE in to pass block on the weak side when 4 players were blitzing from C over.



Which of course raises the natural question - why not give OC's the option to choose blocking:

a) zone blocking
b) inside out
c) man with backs picking up remainder
d) preseason blocking with TE kept in if needed to pass block on weak side when 4 players are blitzing from C over

As you said, DC's find blitzes that will beat one scheme, so the answer is to let the OC's call the blocking scheme, and now you have a guessing game, which is just like real life. The defense can overcommit to the blitz and hope to outguess the blocking scheme, but they can't be certain that their blitz will work, and when it fails they could potentially give up huge gains. It seems we are very close to solving this whole problem so why such opposition to letting OC's call blocking schemes?
 
tragula
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From listening to Catch in the addict radio, the problem is not the blitzing that work but the fact the OL keep generating bugs.

From some strange reason they came into conclusion that by limiting the defense the coding problem for the OL will disappear with no bad effect on the sim.

If overload blitzing was the problem, then giving blocking scheme options to the OC sould solve the issue.

 
bigtisme
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Originally posted by tragula
From listening to Catch in the addict radio, the problem is not the blitzing that work but the fact the OL keep generating bugs.



The users against this change to the DPC simply will not believe that this is true.
 
tragula
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Originally posted by bigtisme
The users against this change to the DPC simply will not believe that this is true.


I am against the change. I believe it is true and I think it is still an horrible decision.

It will make the sim look even worse in the future. And I doubt that the bugs will actually be fixed, since the problem is deep in the basic algorithm and not the blocking scheme.
 
peacebringer
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Originally posted by tragula
Originally posted by bigtisme

The users against this change to the DPC simply will not believe that this is true.


I am against the change. I believe it is true and I think it is still an horrible decision.

It will make the sim look even worse in the future. And I doubt that the bugs will actually be fixed, since the problem is deep in the basic algorithm and not the blocking scheme.
+1

 
jdbolick
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Originally posted by bigtisme
The users against this change to the DPC simply will not believe that this is true.

Every aspect of the game is somewhat buggy. Semi-aggressive coverage and defender pathing have been buggy for quite a while now, but no one is talking about yanking things away from the offense. Why the double standard? For some reason, Bort consistently shits on defenses, but we pay for dots too.
 
Rage Kinard
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Originally posted by jdbolick

Every aspect of the game is somewhat buggy. Semi-aggressive coverage and defender pathing have been buggy for quite a while now, but no one is talking about yanking things away from the offense. Why the double standard? For some reason, Bort consistently shits on defenses, but we pay for dots too.


and why is it that everyone always talks about the stupid blocking by the OL, but not the stupid pathing that outside blitzers often take running into the back of another defender being blocked by the OT instead of the 3 yard gap between the LT

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1427275&pbp_id=12742798 - I mean what is SS thinking. I have a straight shot to the QB, should I take it? No. I'll run into the back of the DE and trick them by going to the outside.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1427275&pbp_id=12744449 - LOLB decides to try the same trick
 
F8n4tune
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Originally posted by Rage Kinard

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1427275&pbp_id=12742798 - I mean what is SS thinking. I have a straight shot to the QB, should I take it? No. I'll run into the back of the DE and trick them by going to the outside.





That's painful to watch.

 
tragula
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Originally posted by Rage Kinard

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1427275&pbp_id=12742798 - I mean what is SS thinking. I have a straight shot to the QB, should I take it? No. I'll run into the back of the DE and trick them by going to the outside.


All that is wrong in GLB in one replay.
- Lol blocking logic
- Lol TE blocking two players
- Lol HB catching in a crowd
- Lol DC ranting after a playoff lose

 
Rage Kinard
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Originally posted by tragula
All that is wrong in GLB in one replay.
- Lol blocking logic
- Lol TE blocking two players
- Lol HB catching in a crowd
- Lol DC ranting after a playoff lose



meh, there are more reasons than that we lost. I wish I could blame it on the SIM. I just remembered those plays. I blame the playoff loss on our OC and the 5 turnovers. That and the ST TD we gave up. Shirley it wasn't my fault.

Edit: http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1191663&pbp_id=17199362 - this is about the only play that ever made me want to chuck my laptop through the window. Since then, I just laugh and take it in stride. After DCing other WL teams, I'm not even sure I want to go back. Too much work.
Edited by Rage Kinard on Oct 28, 2010 22:24:08
 
Macabrevity
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Originally posted by Rage Kinard
I still think last season's blocking code was better and looked less "buggy".

They only changed it because this blitz worked http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1369446&pbp_id=1480270


If that blitz didn't work, 5 blockers vs. 6 rushers, and all six got picked up, then I'd be really worried.
 
tragula
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Originally posted by Macabrevity
If that blitz didn't work, 5 blockers vs. 6 rushers, and all six got picked up, then I'd be really worried.


But you do want the RE to make the sack and not the ROLB (giving the O some time to operate)
 
PinTBC
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Originally posted by tragula
From listening to Catch in the addict radio, the problem is not the blitzing that work but the fact the OL keep generating bugs.

From some strange reason they came into conclusion that by limiting the defense the coding problem for the OL will disappear with no bad effect on the sim.


A better description might be that by limiting the lines the defensive players can attack the offensive line with, it becomes easier to identify problems with blocking assignments.

Right now, the problems set is pretty much open ended, and limiting that problem set might be able to help the design of the line interactions. That assumes of course that someone actually pays attention to the blocking schemes, before running off to try to create a patch to cover up some other problem.
 
Bloodfart
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Originally posted by Rage Kinard
I still think last season's blocking code was better and looked less "buggy".

They only changed it because this blitz worked http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1369446&pbp_id=1480270


I wonder if the QB would have got rid of the ball if the TE was his 1st progression rather than the HB, seeing they rarely throw to the HB when he's still behind the LOS.
 
tragula
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Originally posted by PinTBC
A better description might be that by limiting the lines the defensive players can attack the offensive line with, it becomes easier to identify problems with blocking assignments.

Right now, the problems set is pretty much open ended, and limiting that problem set might be able to help the design of the line interactions. That assumes of course that someone actually pays attention to the blocking schemes, before running off to try to create a patch to cover up some other problem.


The problem with Catch's argument is that it practically false. There are too many combination of blitzes (no matter how limited will be the movement) that they will not be able to solve the problem in one big 'case' command.

Since the problem is in the they way the O read the field and make decision nothing will change. That will lead them to limit the motion so there will be no overload blitzing at all, which is just welcome back to season 8.


 
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