Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Corndog
Like, I mean, I'm on his side. Half the changes were done because I argued to counteract the indirect nerf to zone. Getting zone in a workable state was a goal for years. But like, he's giving me nothing here but obtuse arguments based on his feelings.

But how were their arguments better? That was piss poor data on their part and hardly any of it to boot when Bort rolled back the change. Then I'm forced to do a "wait and see" to gather data down the road to make my case when they barely had anything and not enough to really back up their opinion, at least based on how you guys handled things in the past years.

Look I do appreciate you at least listening and I generally don't like to give you shit as much as others do on here because I think you care about the game. You are always here and reading the forums.

Originally posted by ThePh33P
I'mma be real here I've tried gold head fake max route elusiveness and route tech and did not see significant separation despite utilizing the skills your suggesting. gotta raise that floor and lower the ceiling. i would also add that raising the floor on breaking tackles would be helpful ESPECIALLY when a defender is trailing the receiver or recently failed a coverage tech check

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/805046/1165953

Head Fake is awesome, this build featured it

Originally posted by ThePh33P
I'mma be real here I've tried gold head fake max route elusiveness and route tech and did not see significant separation despite utilizing the skills your suggesting. gotta raise that floor and lower the ceiling.

100% agree

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
But how were their arguments better? That was piss poor data on their part and hardly any of it to boot when Bort rolled back the change. Then I'm forced to do a "wait and see" to gather data down the road to make my case when they barely had anything and not enough to really back up their opinion, at least based on how you guys handled things in the past years.

Look I do appreciate you at least listening and I generally don't like to give you shit as much as others do on here because I think you care about the game. You are always here and reading the forums.

Myrik we actually had something to show! That is what he is telling you. You haven't been able to show anything showing that zone was actualy hurt beside maybe lower INT. Not no INT just some lower.

He is clearly telling you show him results and he will agree with you and help. But he cant just take no proof. You say our proof was shitty because of weather, even though my qb awareness arent bad, i dont know of any that are that much better. Saying our example was shitty and you not showing better proof is not an arguemnt. Like corn said that is your opinion with zero facts.

Hey corn here is that screen

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/814653/1896272


Here is a throw in middle against zone from a 50power QB that looks bad.
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/814653/1896395

Originally posted by Corndog
Like, I mean, I'm on his side. Half the changes were done because I argued to counteract the indirect nerf to zone. Getting zone in a workable state was a goal for years. But like, he's giving me nothing here but obtuse arguments based on his feelings.

Ugh... so you know its a direct nerf to Zone and they both went against you.

Originally posted by BoDiddley
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/805046/1165953

Head Fake is awesome, this build featured it

Lol...nice. I guess it does work.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
Alright, fine. But I see which squeaky wheels get the grease around here, first I've seen a roll back based off 2 games in crap weather off dots which horrible pass awareness.

you have 7 stars on defense alone, i honestly think you’ll be alright.

Monopolizing stopping the run and getting to the QB all without viable depth would normally leave teams extremely open to being done in by the pass. The game mechanics allowed you to take advantage of the fact that passing sucks, so you could continue to fuck people over via the run / rush. It’s highly unlikely many teams suddenly stand up to yours now.

Everything you’re saying will put passing right back to where it started: not being able to exploit obvious holes and defense taking advantage of that. by that logic rushing should’ve been truly nerfed a long time ago. you don’t even need the extra star points to create a 100 yard rusher.

I get where you’re coming from - running man blitz is fun until I have a defender that decides it’s in his pathing to do something completely illogical on a blitz. Which is essentially every few blitzes. (sidebar: S56-60 please take a peek at the blitz pathing for blitzers and non blitzers in some of these packages, I’ll put something together as the season goes along since that’s likely the only thing I’ll do this season. Everyone wants a S* HB so bad they’re even getting two of them..)

More SAs aren’t the answer. Cover Expert is the best DB SA in the game not named OAI. Not many people use it, idk why, it’s great.

Originally posted by dredgar
Hey corn here is that screen

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/814653/1896272

Yeah ngl im not a fan out the bubble screens.

Originally posted by TyDavis315
you have 7 stars on defense alone, i honestly think you’ll be alright.

Monopolizing stopping the run and getting to the QB all without viable depth would normally leave teams extremely open to being done in by the pass. The game mechanics allowed you to take advantage of the fact that passing sucks, so you could continue to fuck people over via the run / rush. It’s highly unlikely many teams suddenly stand up to yours now.

Everything you’re saying will put passing right back to where it started: not being able to exploit obvious holes and defense taking advantage of that. by that logic rushing should’ve been truly nerfed a long time ago. you don’t even need the extra star points to create a 100 yard rusher.

I get where you’re coming from - running man blitz is fun until I have a defender that decides it’s in his pathing to do something completely illogical on a blitz. Which is essentially every few blitzes. (sidebar: S56-60 please take a peek at the blitz pathing for blitzers and non blitzers in some of these packages, I’ll put something together as the season goes along since that’s likely the only thing I’ll do this season. Everyone wants a S* HB so bad they’re even getting two of them..)

More SAs aren’t the answer. Cover Expert is the best DB SA in the game not named OAI. Not many people use it, idk why, it’s great.

Swat down is way better.

Originally posted by dredgar
Hey corn here is that screen

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/814653/1896272

What were you expecting? Looks like a legit play by the DE who dropped into the flats.

Originally posted by dredgar
Myrik we actually had something to show! That is what he is telling you. You haven't been able to show anything showing that zone was actualy hurt beside maybe lower INT. Not no INT just some lower.

He is clearly telling you show him results and he will agree with you and help. But he cant just take no proof. You say our proof was shitty because of weather, even though my qb awareness arent bad, i dont know of any that are that much better. Saying our example was shitty and you not showing better proof is not an arguemnt. Like corn said that is your opinion with zero facts.

I mean, he's not wrong. Two games in bad weather isn't exactly the best data.

The main driving factor was realizing the changes actually made were the opposite of the changes actually communicated. The original changes made kinda made no sense to begin with. Needing to pass a check so that you can get to have a noodle arm when throwing an 8 yard pass over the middle is a bit dumb.

Pass arcs had been a known issue for quite awhile. Going in with the knowledge that it was going to nerf zone, I requested several other nerfs to passing that I had wanted for awhile. Namely receiver reactions to bad passes, and On the Run being ridiculously strong. Both amplify the effect of a pass rush forcing bad passes, which is another area that zone shines in comparison to man coverage. Couple that with the fairly small change to passing arc (there's still examples of underneath players getting their hands on balls), and the meltdown looks silly to me.

Originally posted by dredgar
Myrik we actually had something to show! That is what he is telling you. You haven't been able to show anything showing that zone was actualy hurt beside maybe lower INT. Not no INT just some lower.

He is clearly telling you show him results and he will agree with you and help. But he cant just take no proof. You say our proof was shitty because of weather, even though my qb awareness arent bad, i dont know of any that are that much better. Saying our example was shitty and you not showing better proof is not an arguemnt. Like corn said that is your opinion with zero facts.

I don't blame him then, at least he tried.

Outside of that, I don't see that you guys really showed enough data to get a roll back off 2 games (and not great ones either). That seems to imply that since Zone is so unpopular it doesn't take much of nothing to nerf it and I'll need substantially more to get some balance.

Originally posted by dredgar
Hey corn here is that screen

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/814653/1896272

I mean yeah, DE contain is a pretty heavy counter to WR screens lol

They're still not exactly working spectacularly, but not because of that specific play. Will probably look at them again down the line.

Originally posted by Cybertron
Lol...nice. I guess it does work.

Yep, take a look at how many yards he got. Like I don't think people truly want fakes buffed lol. It would be OP