Warrior General Games

Originally posted by jdbolick

What?

The evidence is I tried it and it worked. Otherwise I wouldn't of said such a thing.

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Seasons 12/13 there was very good OL/DL interaction and agility/speed based interior DL were relevant. Teams could put a "pass rushing" DT in the game and disrupt the passing game, but be exposed to the interior run or put 2 run stoppers in the middle, clog up the interior run and sacrifice pass pressure opening them up to good passing attacks.

Offensive coordinators, QB owners, and WR owners complained because they had trouble passing against teams with really good pass rushing DLs. Agility (and I believe shed block as well) took a huge nerf in the OL/DL interaction after season 13. Strength was made a much bigger part of the hold block/break block mechanic.

This forced pretty much all DTs to change equipment and become strength based and because strength had been made so much more important in the OL/DL interaction, the result was a lot more reverse pancakes as more and more defensive linemen shifted over to being strength based.

It also changed the SIM so that DL basically only made plays after reverse pancaking offensive linemen. DL agents noticed this and then focused on building DL with the sole focus being on increasing the break block/reverse pancake roll. The reverse pancakes got out of control, so before this season, Bort made it harder for defenders to break blocks and get reverse pancakes.

Now you have a situation where defenses are forced into 1 of 2 options. Send more people than the offense can block and hope the one who goes free makes the play (sack, tackle). Or drop a ton of players deep and give up some free yards against the run and hope that double and triple coverage on all the WRs will help get some INTs or at least prevent the WR from catching it more than 60% of the time.

OCs are now upset that sending more players than the offense can block is effective a larger % of the time than they would like to see. (which means anything more than 25%)

This is 100% accurate.

As a DC of a pro league, and couple seasons in the WL team, I've seen defenses go through each of these phases. And no matter what we do to figure out what works next, OC's and GLB start crying that Defenses are OP'ed... Well, we're running out of options, and the average scores per game are going up and up and up...

Overload / Exploit Blitzes: "Are too cheap and give up too many insta-sacks because offenses can't react to the same blitz over and over again.

- Well defenses can't react to a blown coverage in one of their plays, or a misplaced DE that allows sweeps over and over and over... Maybe OC's should have gameplanned ahead of time and made the appropriate adjustments to stop / slow down the blitzes?

Ok, so we can't blitz to keep QB's completion percentages under 60%, let's try blanketing WR's shall we?

On Third and Forever, Qb's pass the ball into triple coverage... Two were pump faked, the third waited patiently to tackle the WR once he was certain the WR had a firm grasp on the ball so he wouldn't knock the ball loose or even worse, cause a fumble.

Oh, and the Offense ran the ball up the gut for 4-5 yards a carry when they didn't throw a deep pass.


Well, gee, blanketed coverages and the blitzes don't work anymore, our agility DT's do nothing but fall down, and our strength DT's can't break the block and get past the blocker before being re-engaged, and revcakes have been neutered... The only chance a defense has is to have a DE get penetration up field and get a coverage sack! Great...

The solution? Handicap the DPC... This will show those DC's who runs this game!

Originally posted by Dr. E
The evidence is I tried it and it worked. Otherwise I wouldn't of said such a thing.
Read up about correlation and causation, specifically relating to one iteration samples.

I would LOVE to have an OPC.

Originally posted by Dr. E
Could be. I can't argue otherwise because I haven't been in the pros. But the assumption that it's a low level effect, is not what I have found to be true. My G and C have only begun to pick them up as their speed/agility increased. Of course you could be including A league as low level effect. Two more seasons, maybe three, we will see for sure.

To be more exact.
I never seen a pro level QB with agility less than 48. Most of them will have speed at least 40 (the standard is min 50 on both). This is like energy for OL, you see it get low in the lower levels, but for pro dots it is very rare to find a build that will have an energy issue.

I actually agree that you need minimal SPD/AGI on the QB. And I love to have QBs that are slightly above the minimum, so

However, I seriously doubt you can have enough SPD/AGI to prevent most of the hurries/sacks one see in the pros (without scrambling)

Originally posted by tdot
OK I coach H.S. football andI don't understand how a Football game is being designed by ppl who don't understand how to either set up a way for this play to be blocked which should be extremely simple... but I guess it isn't I wouldn't know not a huge computer code person.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1420117&pbp_id=10577300

Why doesn't the OL slide Left??? How in the world do you make a game that profits as much as this does but have an OL that can't Block this??? I have Freshman in H.S. that if seen a team line up like this wouldn't get beat by this scheme especially with a HB in the backfield to help.

have you guys thought about Zone blocking??? this way the OL doeasn't lock into any 1 players and this will allow this to take the guy who enters there zone.

Originally posted by tragula
It is zone blocking in pass protection. This is one messed up replay (= a bug), and you will not find too many of those (but they exist if you search). If you read Catch's announcement, then the drive for the change is that they cannot handle those bugs.


Re-read what i said: first WHY DOESN'T THE OL "SLIDE" LEFT...? This isn't a true zone blocking scheme. If it was the RT wouldn't running to the left to try to pick up the DE... Does Bort contact coaches to get a better understanding of how things are supposed to happen or does he get his info. from video games? (Honest Question) Due to the fact that most of the plays on here look like some from Madden then they do my playbook in real life.

Originally posted by tdot

Re-read what i said: first WHY DOESN'T THE OL "SLIDE" LEFT...? This isn't a true zone blocking scheme. If it was the RT wouldn't running to the left to try to pick up the DE... Does Bort contact coaches to get a better understanding of how things are supposed to happen or does he get his info. from video games? (Honest Question) Due to the fact that most of the plays on here look like some from Madden then they do my playbook in real life.

I guess the replay (a bug or a DE really killing the ROT) made me fail to understand.

Basically GLB use a zone method. Not a very realistic one (no slides and backs are never a desgined part of the blocking), and unfortunately not a very functional one (leading to players crossing the formation). But the initial desgin is still zone. The OL block anyone near him from the inside out.
The blocking logic has many flaws, and the blocking is less then satisfactory (OL don't really know how to handoff defenders when the pass block. OTs doesn't know how to lead the speed OT deep behind the QB)

Originally posted by Bort
TBH we could add some more formations like 4-4 by adding more limitations to the d line, since it would be far easier to test against.

The main things that I find dumb are the completely unrealistic D line setups some people make with a DE way outside on one side and the DT shifted way the other way, etc. Does not resemble a real formation in any way.

But 107-87 scores are the pinnacle of resembling realism.

Originally posted by jdbolick

Read up about correlation and causation, specifically relating to one iteration samples.


Why do you assume it's one sample? It's not just one QB, not just one team and not just one season.

Originally posted by tdot

Re-read what i said: first WHY DOESN'T THE OL "SLIDE" LEFT...? This isn't a true zone blocking scheme. If it was the RT wouldn't running to the left to try to pick up the DE... Does Bort contact coaches to get a better understanding of how things are supposed to happen or does he get his info. from video games? (Honest Question) Due to the fact that most of the plays on here look like some from Madden then they do my playbook in real life.

Amen to that brother.

Beta is about to become an over-statement I'm afraid...

How about developmental and completely unpredictable as an alternative?

Originally posted by Dr. E
Why do you assume it's one sample?
Because you said so. Please stop derailing the thread. QB agility & speed has nothing to do with this discussion.

Originally posted by tdot

Re-read what i said: first WHY DOESN'T THE OL "SLIDE" LEFT...? This isn't a true zone blocking scheme. If it was the RT wouldn't running to the left to try to pick up the DE... Does Bort contact coaches to get a better understanding of how things are supposed to happen or does he get his info. from video games? (Honest Question) Due to the fact that most of the plays on here look like some from Madden then they do my playbook in real life.

The problem is that blocking is not how it is intended.

What happens is this vicious cycle

Bort creates a blocking logic
it is tested vs regular defenses and known blitzes to see if blocking works in a logical manner
a few extra blitzes are thrown at it to see if it still works logically
it gets implemented

DCs come up with a variety of blitzes and end up with some that cause the OL to block in a bugged manner based on the current code

Bort creates new blocking logic or tries to fix bugged blocking vs those blitzes
new/changed blocking logic is tested to see if bugged blocking is fixed
blocking is tested against standard defenses and other blitzes

New code gets implemented
DCs run 100s of new blitz schemes until the uncover blitzes that make new blocking mechanic work in a bugged manner

rinse, repeat

zone blocking has been tried. Inside out has been tried(current). Man up with backs picking up remainder has been tried.

Every time Bort changes the blocking scheme, there ends up being not only blitzes that beat it, but blitzes that cause bugged blocking by the OL.

Personally, I feel the best, most consistent blocking scheme, is the one that was in place this season but was changed in pre-season because OCs didn't want to keep a TE in to pass block on the weak side when 4 players were blitzing from C over.

The blocking code we have now is pretty damn good, as it works against almost all blitzes. And while we're on the subject, let's not overlook the fact that blitzes that do get blocked are much worse in GLB than "real life," so the only blitzes that are effective are the ones that come unblocked.

Originally posted by jdbolick
The blocking code we have now is pretty damn good, as it works against almost all blitzes. And while we're on the subject, let's not overlook the fact that blitzes that do get blocked are much worse in GLB than "real life," so the only blitzes that are effective are the ones that come unblocked.

I still think last season's blocking code was better and looked less "buggy".

They only changed it because this blitz worked http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1369446&pbp_id=1480270

Originally posted by jdbolick

Because you said so. Please stop derailing the thread. QB agility & speed has nothing to do with this discussion.


I think if you go back a bit, you will find it wasn't me that went off topic. Seems you were a bit more interested in involving yourself in a discussion between myself and another Agent than in responding to the idea previously posted. My replays were nothing more than a continuation of said topic. Now I guess a good argument can be made that this post is off topic and I'd have to agree, but to not post would deny you a chance to learn one big truth. The best way to keep a thread from going off target is don't follow any misguided threads and/or contribute to them.

Almost stopped there, but it has been my experience that many people are more interested in showing their dominance than in accomplishing an objective. I've said all I will to you regarding your observations and have no intention of involving myself in a contest of egos most common on the internet. So don't bother attacking another of my posts, it will not get a response.