Warrior General Games

I completely lost about the Season 12 reference. Why is that relevant ?

I just hope you allow the LOLB to move out a few more tics when you go to limiting their movement...my only suggestion

Originally posted by tragula
I completely lost about the Season 12 reference. Why is that relevant ?

Seasons 12/13 there was very good OL/DL interaction and agility/speed based interior DL were relevant. Teams could put a "pass rushing" DT in the game and disrupt the passing game, but be exposed to the interior run or put 2 run stoppers in the middle, clog up the interior run and sacrifice pass pressure opening them up to good passing attacks.

Offensive coordinators, QB owners, and WR owners complained because they had trouble passing against teams with really good pass rushing DLs. Agility (and I believe shed block as well) took a huge nerf in the OL/DL interaction after season 13. Strength was made a much bigger part of the hold block/break block mechanic.

This forced pretty much all DTs to change equipment and become strength based and because strength had been made so much more important in the OL/DL interaction, the result was a lot more reverse pancakes as more and more defensive linemen shifted over to being strength based.

It also changed the SIM so that DL basically only made plays after reverse pancaking offensive linemen. DL agents noticed this and then focused on building DL with the sole focus being on increasing the break block/reverse pancake roll. The reverse pancakes got out of control, so before this season, Bort made it harder for defenders to break blocks and get reverse pancakes.

Now you have a situation where defenses are forced into 1 of 2 options. Send more people than the offense can block and hope the one who goes free makes the play (sack, tackle). Or drop a ton of players deep and give up some free yards against the run and hope that double and triple coverage on all the WRs will help get some INTs or at least prevent the WR from catching it more than 60% of the time.

OCs are now upset that sending more players than the offense can block is effective a larger % of the time than they would like to see. (which means anything more than 25%)

I've tried to imagine how limiting the positioning of the D line and LBs will solve any issues that some complain about and just don't see how it will make much impact. The only move that would, is to force the DEs in tight, but that would begin the true age of the sweep. It would be unstoppable and it would completely kill the 3-4. As for the LB, all it would do is cause the blitz to go inside instead of outside.

I think a better idea would be to make a slight change in how blitz works. If for example the more aggressive the pass rush slider the bigger a vision hit, so much that he would miss highly likely to miss any HB running his direction should the setting be at 100 %, then tactics would solve the problem the same way it's done in the NFL.

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Seasons 12/13 there was very good OL/DL interaction and agility/speed based interior DL were relevant. Teams could put a "pass rushing" DT in the game and disrupt the passing game, but be exposed to the interior run or put 2 run stoppers in the middle, clog up the interior run and sacrifice pass pressure opening them up to good passing attacks.

Offensive coordinators, QB owners, and WR owners complained because they had trouble passing against teams with really good pass rushing DLs. Agility (and I believe shed block as well) took a huge nerf in the OL/DL interaction after season 13. Strength was made a much bigger part of the hold block/break block mechanic.

This forced pretty much all DTs to change equipment and become strength based and because strength had been made so much more important in the OL/DL interaction, the result was a lot more reverse pancakes as more and more defensive linemen shifted over to being strength based.

It also changed the SIM so that DL basically only made plays after reverse pancaking offensive linemen. DL agents noticed this and then focused on building DL with the sole focus being on increasing the break block/reverse pancake roll. The reverse pancakes got out of control, so before this season, Bort made it harder for defenders to break blocks and get reverse pancakes.

Now you have a situation where defenses are forced into 1 of 2 options. Send more people than the offense can block and hope the one who goes free makes the play (sack, tackle). Or drop a ton of players deep and give up some free yards against the run and hope that double and triple coverage on all the WRs will help get some INTs or at least prevent the WR from catching it more than 60% of the time.

OCs are now upset that sending more players than the offense can block is effective a larger % of the time than they would like to see. (which means anything more than 25%)

Funny when you consider the real cause of the DL pressure on the QB was the QB's poor speed/agility. So many QB builds had a colossal throwing skill that agility wasn't looked at until late in the Dots life. When we changed our QB's build focus the pressure became much less.

Having seen the quality control of testing it's no wonder the wrong assumptions are made by GLB.

Originally posted by Dr. E
Funny when you consider the real cause of the DL pressure on the QB was the QB's poor speed/agility. So many QB builds had a colossal throwing skill that agility wasn't looked at until late in the Dots life. When we changed our QB's build focus the pressure became much less.

Having seen the quality control of testing it's no wonder the wrong assumptions are made by GLB.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=897685&pbp_id=17656618
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=897685&pbp_id=17665262
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=897685&pbp_id=17661196

Do you really think those sacks are a result of poor QB agility? How much agility will help a QB get away from a 100+ agility, 95 speed, 12 FS DT who isn't blocked at the LOS (especially when most Pro/WL QBs still only have 40-50 speed)?

If you prevent 3 men being lined up side by side on LOS so that you can't have 2 Defensive players head up over 2 OL and another defensive player lined up on the LOS in between them, then force the off the los blitz to come from 3 yards deep, then QB at least has time to drop back and attempt to get a pass off.

I don't really want this limitation. I'd much rather have the DPC kept as is. However, if the choice is between a limited DPC and no DPC, I'll take the limited DPC any day.

Originally posted by Dr. E
Funny when you consider the real cause of the DL pressure on the QB was the QB's poor speed/agility. So many QB builds had a colossal throwing skill that agility wasn't looked at until late in the Dots life. When we changed our QB's build focus the pressure became much less. Having seen the quality control of testing it's no wonder the wrong assumptions are made by GLB.
Your conclusion is specious. When I dramatically increased my QB's speed & agility, his sacks actually went up because he tried to scramble away from pressure too often.

Originally posted by jdbolick

Your conclusion is specious. When I dramatically increased my QB's speed & agility, his sacks actually went up because he tried to scramble away from pressure too often.



Funny you automatically label my statement as false. When I already said it worked. Perhaps if you just changed the tactics to never scramble you wouldn't have the issue.

Of course your statement is a good example of why so many complain that because A happens and B didn't fix it that the SIM is broken. If instead of making such an assumption those many complainers realized there are many factors in the game that can cause an issue and considered builds, tactics, game plan and formations as a "whole" instead of separate, I bet they would be posting they don't have the issues.

I've said it many times before, the only time I have an issue with my opponents formations/builds is when they have many levels on me.

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=897685&pbp_id=17656618
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=897685&pbp_id=17665262
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=897685&pbp_id=17661196

Do you really think those sacks are a result of poor QB agility? How much agility will help a QB get away from a 100+ agility, 95 speed, 12 FS DT who isn't blocked at the LOS (especially when most Pro/WL QBs still only have 40-50 speed)?

If you prevent 3 men being lined up side by side on LOS so that you can't have 2 Defensive players head up over 2 OL and another defensive player lined up on the LOS in between them, then force the off the los blitz to come from 3 yards deep, then QB at least has time to drop back and attempt to get a pass off.

I don't really want this limitation. I'd much rather have the DPC kept as is. However, if the choice is between a limited DPC and no DPC, I'll take the limited DPC any day.

Probably not the QB, but O line. My guard and sometimes center get over to pick up those extra guys. Usually you can tell if it's the QB by who is applying the pressure. Watch and sometimes you will see a DT pressure the QB into a bad pass even though he is blocked. Put more agility/speed on the QB and the extra separation keeps those beefy DTs from being so scary.

Originally posted by Dr. E
Probably not the QB, but O line. My guard and sometimes center get over to pick up those extra guys. Usually you can tell if it's the QB by who is applying the pressure.

I agree with you on the O-line. That was part of my original complaint was that OL didn't want to get 70 speed and 90 agility but rather wanted to pump up to 140-150(especially Cs) strength, then wondered why defensive players ran right by them.

Originally posted by Dr. E
Funny you automatically label my statement as false. When I already said it worked. Perhaps if you just changed the tactics to never scramble you wouldn't have the issue.
He was on never. By "scramble" I meant moving around while still trying to pass. And I didn't say your statement was false, I said that your conclusion was "specious." That means it sounds plausible, but doesn't have any real evidence to back it up. For instance, if I tried to say that adding agility & speed will increase sacks for most quarterbacks, there wouldn't be sufficient evidence to support that assertion either.

Originally posted by
Of course your statement is a good example of why so many complain that because A happens and B didn't fix it that the SIM is broken.
What?

Originally posted by Dr. E
Probably not the QB, but O line. My guard and sometimes center get over to pick up those extra guys. Usually you can tell if it's the QB by who is applying the pressure. Watch and sometimes you will see a DT pressure the QB into a bad pass even though he is blocked. Put more agility/speed on the QB and the extra separation keeps those beefy DTs from being so scary.

That is a low level effect. I doubt you see it too much in the pros (unless someone will go with a 30/30 AGI/SPD QB).

Originally posted by tragula
That is a low level effect. I doubt you see it too much in the pros (unless someone will go with a 30/30 AGI/SPD QB).

Could be. I can't argue otherwise because I haven't been in the pros. But the assumption that it's a low level effect, is not what I have found to be true. My G and C have only begun to pick them up as their speed/agility increased. Of course you could be including A league as low level effect. Two more seasons, maybe three, we will see for sure.

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=1360589

I assume you think there is some point to be had in that scrimmage game? Careful with any conclusions you draw there. I usually have the tactics askew to see the effect on plays and/or run stuff that didn't work the previous season to see if it works after all the skill points were applied.