Warrior General Games

Originally posted by bhall43
Originally posted by Baw333_1994

I'll say it again... If you want to start a new game (or major parts within) then do it with only the new players/teams.....atleast give the vets a Public Option... sheeesh!

I don't know whats not to like as a veteran player here.

I personally dont like being raped...you may enjoy!

Originally posted by Mitch54
Originally posted by bhall43

Originally posted by UsCtRoJaNs1820


Of course the training method we have isn't fun but it's "working as intended" as some would like to say. When the new training thing comes out and then people who are for it right now get fed up with it they'll be wanting the old method back.

Its working as intended because you are used to it. Basic AI was working as intended back in the early seasons, but ever since Advanced AI came along and was around for a couple of seasons, most coordinators will never go back to basic again for any meaningful game.

Was there a response to the Advanced AI similar to the one we are experiencing with these changes?


I don't think so. I think most people wanted to determine which plays they ran and stuff.

Originally posted by Mitch54
Was there a response to the Advanced AI similar to the one we are experiencing with these changes?


lol yes. When the OAI was brought in...there was no DPC. Offense went wild. Then DPC was created and brought a shit ton of defensive exploits but also shittier defenses. People hate change. And the ones that really hate change are the ones that express that feeling. Not the ones that like it. Which is why you will always see a bunch of similar people on these boards expressing how much they hate a new part of the game.

Originally posted by Catch22
You guys are missing the most important part of Bort's quote.

Old system there was ONE way you could gain BT's - it was at a rate of 1 every 2.5 days (equivalent of 3 every 2.5 days or 1.2 per day)

New system there are multiple ways:
Hard - 1.0 per day
Medium - 2.0 per day
Light - 3.0 per day
Two+ - 1.0 per day

So we're reducing the bonus token conversion for training two attributes by .2 per day because there are options where that efficiency is increased up to 250%. If we just made it easy to obtain BT's through training 2+ attributes that is all people would ever do.

In other words if we did 7 seasons worth of multi-trains during the player's career. We would lose 78 BT's vs the old system just in training, then when you factor in the 4 attributes we'd conservatively have to unlock that's an additional 50 BT's. Sooo just to get back to where we are right now in the current system we'd have to do 43 light trains. That's an entire season and part of a preseason just to catch up with our BT's.

And for what it's worth people would still do the light trains at the end of their careers regardless.

Originally posted by Baw333_1994
I personally dont like being raped...you may enjoy!

how are you raped?

Originally posted by bhall43
Originally posted by Baw333_1994

I'll say it again... If you want to start a new game (or major parts within) then do it with only the new players/teams.....atleast give the vets a Public Option... sheeesh!

I don't know whats not to like as a veteran player here.

Coaches. Srsly do we really need them? How about fixing the 255-0 games first and getting more human owned teams and stuff. I would rather have competitiveness than coaches or a new training option tbh.

Originally posted by Mitch54
Of course you would have...you thought them up. I would embrace m own ideas as well.

lol I didn't think them up. Not even close. In fact, not a single one of the training ideas is mine.

Originally posted by UsCtRoJaNs1820



I don't think so. I think most people wanted to determine which plays they ran and stuff.

Most people want more options to build their players too.

Originally posted by Catch22
Originally posted by Mitch54

Of course you would have...you thought them up. I would embrace m own ideas as well.

lol I didn't think them up. Not even close. In fact, not a single one of the training ideas is mine.

Are these ideas in the epic suggestions thing? If so I let me know so I can go take a look at who wanted them.

Originally posted by ijg
I agree it shouldn't be easy but it shouldn't be an automatic no, either.

My first run of the math says you're closer but still not there.

To get to level 5 is 45 BT. Let's say I train light for 15 days to get those 45 tokens. Using your 15% example, that gets me 2.25 attribute points (45*.15). Now I train another 23 days at the 50% lvl 5 bonus, so I'm getting 90% each day = 20.7 points (23*.90). So a total of 23 points (20.7+2.25).

If I stuck on intense for those 38 days @60%, I'm at 22.8points. But again, this assumes my intense train stays at 60% when it really declines over time, so my 38 day breakeven is probably well over 50 and who trains one skill for 50 days straight?

I think you need to take actual training % and run them through a player builder and see where you get to reasonable break points. Also, my first example showed lvl 2 was much less onerous than lvl 5. That may or may not still be the case but I think all those relationships need to be vetted to make sure say lvl 3 isn't way better than all the others.

I think that is the main problem. It cost way to much for level 5, when it assumes we will be training over the course of a season, while the truth is, people only spend 2 seasons MAX training 1 attribute before dumping sp into it.

You have to gimp your training at the start to build tokens to raise levels but I never see anyone unlocking level 5 early on.

I would plan and unlock 2ndary attributes for training later on down the road. This would allow me to train multiple while just banking BT's. The problem though is when we start saving for AEQ, no one will be unlocking attribute levels anymore.

If we could recoup those bonus tokens, even at a reduced level, it would help later on.

Originally posted by UsCtRoJaNs1820
Coaches. Srsly do we really need them? How about fixing the 255-0 games first and getting more human owned teams and stuff. I would rather have competitiveness than coaches or a new training option tbh.

This is the training thread. I haven't looked much at the coaching part, but Catch has said numerous times the boosts aren't ridiculous or anything.

Originally posted by bhall43
Originally posted by UsCtRoJaNs1820




I don't think so. I think most people wanted to determine which plays they ran and stuff.

Most people want more options to build their players too.

Training still isn't going to change your players build overall. You're still going to put your SP's into what you're currently putting them in.

Originally posted by Phantom_Opera
who trains one skill for 50 days straight?




I have?

Yes, there are times it makes sense, especially later in your career, but I don't think it's the norm and my concern is the casual loser will think it's great to get the high % bonuses and not realized they are actually worse off unless they are planning on training that skill for well over a season.

Perhaps someone will do a guide that will help people understand the breakevens but it is kind of hard as it really depends on your starting point in the skill (you don't want those penalty trains when you have 12 points in a skill to get a bonus when it's at 30 but you might not mind the penalty when you're at 40 and the bonus is at 50).

Originally posted by Saris
In other words if we did 7 seasons worth of multi-trains during the player's career. We would lose 78 BT's vs the old system just in training, then when you factor in the 4 attributes we'd conservatively have to unlock that's an additional 50 BT's. Sooo just to get back to where we are right now in the current system we'd have to do 43 light trains. That's an entire season and part of a preseason just to catch up with our BT's.

And for what it's worth people would still do the light trains at the end of their careers regardless.

It is what it is man - sorry. Bort thinks this is the best way to ensure balance between the various options and it's not like every one won't be using the same training system. You also need to factor in that ALG's are more efficient (for most builds now) so build efficiency will be balanced out somewhat (if we'd had time, probably would have made more sense to roll this out with the archetypes).

Originally posted by UsCtRoJaNs1820
Training still isn't going to change your players build overall. You're still going to put your SP's into what you're currently putting them in.

How many players are you sitting with 4 AE's and/or 2+ extra SA's?