Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Corndog
There's already a zone specific version, though.

Zone Shark in its current format vs a Safety SA that fires in Zone without the over the top part hampering it... Zone needs some sort of help in deep zone coverage CD to make up for the hit to underneath it took today. As it stands Monster Hit is the way to go and everyone can use it.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
You know, I was kinda thinking the same thing... MH is superior IMO. I judge SAs based on effectiveness and often I can use them... Zone Shark is strong, but is very limited, there is a reason it hardly gets used. Monster Hit can be used everywhere and vs run or pass.

Safeties do need more SAs and I would have really liked something specifically to help zone since this is a nerf to it.

But they also gave you a buff in lower completion percentage, corndog even said it. You may not get a ton of INT but you will still be effective against pass.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
Safeties do need more SAs and I would have really liked something specifically to help zone since this is a nerf to it.

At this point I think I need to check in, you do know the deep zones in Cover 2 etc are zones, right?

Tell me, how do you add SAs to "help zone" to deep zones when man coverage also runs deep zones?

Originally posted by dredgar
But they also gave you a buff in lower completion percentage, corndog even said it. You may not get a ton of INT but you will still be effective against pass.

Those are not zone specific, D. Doesn't it benefit Man as well?

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
Those are not zone specific, D. Doesn't it benefit Man as well?

sure, it does benefit it. But doesnt it hurt all passing as well? Once again if it helps one why does it need to not hep the other as well? Is that not BALANCE! Which is what you have said.

And corndog keeps mentioning that if you improve SA for deep coverage safeties that it would improve the same SA for a say cover 2 man under or cover 1 man under type plays for those safeties. So you keep arguing that it needs to help zone and not man but thats not possible as corndog keeps showing you that. You cant get your cake and eat it to and not share with anyone else. and by anyone else i mean man defense.

Originally posted by Corndog
At this point I think I need to check in, you do know the deep zones in Cover 2 etc are zones, right?

Tell me, how do you add SAs to "help zone" to deep zones when man coverage also runs deep zones?

Yeah I see no way to do this either. I just want Safeties to have SAs related to Zones, with the nod that it makes both form of defense better. Zone Shark to me is the iconic SA choice for a safety; and its just weird they can't use it. But maybe we can have a pass to SAs for next season? Perhaps also demystifying some of the options such as Wide Load and Rough Cover to specify, what, exactly, they do.

Originally posted by Corndog
At this point I think I need to check in, you do know the deep zones in Cover 2 etc are zones, right?

Tell me, how do you add SAs to "help zone" to deep zones when man coverage also runs deep zones?

You say "only players on the Kentucky Mountaineers may select this SA"

Throw a man a bone, corn, cmon

like i think the changes are good for the health of the game, throwing power should be important so should pocket awareness.

what im getting at is we want more of your example play CD, people want to hit a wr in stride over the top for huge gains. part of the reason people were talking about pass arc is hopefully more of those hitting in stride plays.

and as far nerfing Man goes im more looking to buff rac ability and more throws being led and making and seeing big plays on offense and defense rather than the 50/50 TE Spam we've been seeing a lot of recently

i had 4 scrims against vet teams today using a normal offense and defense and had 14 picks i also gave up nearly 1600 yards lmao

Originally posted by ThePh33P
and as far nerfing Man goes im more looking to buff rac ability and more throws being led and making and seeing big plays on offense and defense rather than the 50/50 TE Spam we've been seeing a lot of recently

I mean, a big part of that is builds. You have people optimizing catching in traffic, completely ignoring separation skills and SAs, and then just throwing it to covered players. The teams I linked earlier have players with some degree of investment in the separation skills, and you see quite a bit better looking throws than just throwing it and seeing what happens.

Not that it's the cleanest answer and there's a lot of unrealistic things about passing and man coverage even then, but yeah.

Originally posted by Corndog
I mean, a big part of that is builds. You have people optimizing catching in traffic, completely ignoring separation skills and SAs, and then just throwing it to covered players. The teams I linked earlier have players with some degree of investment in the separation skills, and you see quite a bit better looking throws than just throwing it and seeing what happens.

Not that it's the cleanest answer and there's a lot of unrealistic things about passing and man coverage even then, but yeah.

I think one of the things that perhaps de-incentivizes Elusiveness on WRs is the fact that the check is attempted off the defenders relevant Pass Awareness stat which tends to already be pretty high and thus represents a large SP investment for something that is at least perceived to be unreliable, versus say Pursuit which some corners neglect.

Originally posted by Corndog
At this point I think I need to check in, you do know the deep zones in Cover 2 etc are zones, right?

Tell me, how do you add SAs to "help zone" to deep zones when man coverage also runs deep zones?

Tell me how you think it's fair that Man has SA's that fire deep down the field without any help (or anywhere on the field for that matter) where Zone's has to have guys over the top? That doesn't sound limiting or unfair by comparison?

In your opinion, how are the two defenses balanced in relation to each other after the Pass Power buff, especially since Bort mentions about throwing directly to defenders underneath? I think the change is good, but it's logical to believe it will adversely affect Zone when the LB is an important part of it and he reaped those direct throws. None of the passing nerfs specifically benefited zone, it benefitted defense globally.

So there is nothing you all will do to make up for the nerf?

Originally posted by dredgar
sure, it does benefit it. But doesnt it hurt all passing as well? Once again if it helps one why does it need to not hep the other as well? Is that not BALANCE! Which is what you have said.

.

Look, Bort's patch notes were specifically taken as zone having passes directly thrown to LBs. How do you not see a reduction in Zone producing Ints as not a nerf to Zone? How?

Originally posted by o The Boss x
GE grab the popcorn

Is the bitching over yet? Can we start the damn season?

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
Is nothing you all will do to make up for the nerf?

No I'm pretty happy with it, thanks.

Originally posted by Corndog
I mean, a big part of that is builds. You have people optimizing catching in traffic, completely ignoring separation skills and SAs, and then just throwing it to covered players. The teams I linked earlier have players with some degree of investment in the separation skills, and you see quite a bit better looking throws than just throwing it and seeing what happens.

Not that it's the cleanest answer and there's a lot of unrealistic things about passing and man coverage even then, but yeah.

I'mma be real here I've tried gold head fake max route elusiveness and route tech and did not see significant separation despite utilizing the skills your suggesting. gotta raise that floor and lower the ceiling. i would also add that raising the floor on breaking tackles would be helpful ESPECIALLY when a defender is trailing the receiver or recently failed a coverage tech check