Warrior General Games

Originally posted by BoDiddley
The "right" call is whichever one causes the mismatch.

So we agree that a pass call isn't always the right call if the pass is getting shutdown.

Originally posted by _OSIRIS_
Tdiddy made that statement why we passed so well against his team. Made the excuse he had more run focused defenses in.

Then you say run defenses and bad play calls can shut down the pass.

Wasn't following. I only saw the sentences you quoted.

Originally posted by Corndog
So we agree that a pass call isn't always the right call if the pass is getting shutdown.

Uh Corn, what do you mean by "if the pass is getting shutdown". If I'm using Double Out and the defense uses 3-4 sky or Cloud or Smother and the targeted WR is covered, then that's a matchup that favors the defense. If a defense is using Cb fire and my WR2 is wide open with separation, then he should be at an advantage. Gameplans are built aorund this logic. In football you don't stop pass or run plays with a handful of defensive assignments, it's about the matchups on each and every down. The team that wins the most matchups, wins the field position battle, and makes big plays wins. When the two-minute warning comes aorund, defense can't stop Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers by simply knowing passes will come. They have to win the matchup. The Seahawks were great at this due to Pete Carrol who talked about this very thing when he coached out here at USC. Hmm, well except for that call where he passed and didn't run in the Superbowl.

So your argument is that passing every play should only be stoppable by the best of the best with perfect playcalling because two minute offense exists?

I think I'm going to step away from this discussion. It's mostly just become grasping at straws. You think passing every single play should be a valid way to play football, but reality and I disagree.

Originally posted by Corndog
So your argument is that passing every play should only be stoppable by the best of the best with perfect playcalling because two minute offense exists?

I think I'm going to step away from this discussion. It's mostly just become grasping at straws. You think passing every single play should be a valid way to play football, but reality and I disagree.

I really have no idea how you could read my post and surmise that I'm saying passing "should only be stoppable by the best of the best with perfect playcalling because two minute offense exists?". I didn't suggest or say any of that. I was pretty specific, gave different playcall matchups that arise as examples, and was detailed about the issue.

Every play's success comes down to what the offense and defense calls, and how the builds perform. Gameplanning is about crafting calls that hopefully put your offense or defense at an advantage in that scenario. If the defense makes a call that covers the offensive play well, then they should have the advantage. If the offense calls a play that works well against the defense called, then they should have the advantage. With the passing nerfs even playcalls where the OC should have the advantage, have become inefficient. A WR has steps on a DB thanks to a favorable pass call...oops nope. The defense blitzes and the TE is single covered with high CiT and in front of LB with average pass D skills, incomplete. The point about the two-minute warning is that teams pretty much go all pass, but still it's about matchups, and a great defense will try to make the right calls to disrupt guys like Brady or Rodgers.

Originally posted by BoDiddley
The point about the two-minute warning is that teams pretty much go all pass, but still it's about matchups, and a great defense will try to make the right calls to disrupt guys like Brady or Rodgers.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/2017.htm
587 Passing attempts
448 Rushing attempts

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/gnb/2016.htm
620 Passing attempts
374 Rushing attempts

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/554645
59.3% completion and 69.8% completion

Passing is broken okay guys

Originally posted by Corndog
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/2017.htm
587 Passing attempts
448 Rushing attempts

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/gnb/2016.htm
620 Passing attempts
374 Rushing attempts
What does this have to do with the post your quoting? I keep bringing up the actual playcalls made by the offense vs defense, and you keep ignoring that.

And in regards to attempts, the defense has a built in advantage to use only pass defense plays if going up against an all-pass team. I had a post in this thread showing how Dream Team defended AA back in S25. It's funny though, these NFL numbers are out the window when HBs rushing 40+ times and racking up 300 yards with endless stamina is mentioned. Again, I don't mind that because those teams are gameplaning to get that, I just want the same for passing OCs.

To make it clear again, it's about how the offensive and defensive playcalls matchup. That's football

Originally posted by Corndog
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/554645
59.3% completion and 69.8% completion

Passing is broken okay guys
Random post. I scouted Norse and saw that they were beasting teams with heavy rushing so I used plays to counter Rawlings. Once we went up big, they started passing like crazy and our defense yielded those pass matchups since we were dialed in on the run. Anyone is welcome to watch the game itself and you'll see that. Both Brett and Whocandi really have that team rolling this season.

For Dream I've shifted to HB screens and 5WR sets. This is because the HB screen still works, and helps efficiency(it's hard to get an incomplete on a screen). The 5WR sets are about trying to create any kind of matchup advantages since the other sets are garbage for us right now. Dreams has 4 S* receivers, and a S* scatback so we can still move the ball somewhat in that formation. I did throw in WR Iso in the diamond formation since I saw Norse was vulnerable there. Sadly though, I haven't been able to run much beyond 5WR or the HB screen the past 5-6 games. Our offense used to employ every formation, now we're reduce mostly to one.

Passing is broken. Was broken last season too. But I can see that's falling on deaf ears

Originally posted by BoDiddley
Passing is broken. Was broken last season too. But I can see that's falling on deaf ears


I'm not sure I'd say deaf ears. I hear you guys quite well. Two owners of pure pass teams with a combined record of 27 and 7 are complaining that passing is too easily stopped.

I can only think of so many ways to say tough cookies.

Nice effort BoD... I got exhausted so glad you took over

But it's like trying to have a meaningful discussion with a brick wall

Passing is fine, borderline OP. The super predictable cheese schemes are no longer OP.

ok let's try another route...

Bort... say you guys buff SHORT passes (let's say 5 yards and under), and give a very minor buff to WR screens... this wouldn't cause passing to see a huge buff (because YPA stays the same, maybe even drops), but everything comes across more realistic (much more realistic, higher completion percentages).

what's the downfall there?

Originally posted by _OSIRIS_
The super predictable cheese schemes are no longer OP.

I keep hearing "cheese", "simplistic gameplans", "one-dimensional", yet still waiting to hear how my offensive system is really any of those. I pass roughly 75-80% of the time, sure, but I do mix in runs (both inside, off-tackle, and outside) on ALL downs, and have called 28 DIFFERENT pass plays at least 10 times or more this season (not like I'm calling the same 4 or 5 cheese plays over and over).

Originally posted by TDiddy8701
I keep hearing "cheese", "simplistic gameplans", "one-dimensional", yet still waiting to hear how my offensive system is really any of those. I pass roughly 75-80% of the time, sure, but I do mix in runs (both inside, off-tackle, and outside) on ALL downs, and have called 28 DIFFERENT pass plays at least 10 times or more this season (not like I'm calling the same 4 or 5 cheese plays over and over).

79% not quite cheese but still very predictable because a pass is a pass. I don't think calling 28 plays is actually doing you any favors but I could be wrong.

Originally posted by TDiddy8701
ok let's try another route...

Bort... say you guys buff SHORT passes (let's say 5 yards and under), and give a very minor buff to WR screens... this wouldn't cause passing to see a huge buff (because YPA stays the same, maybe even drops), but everything comes across more realistic (much more realistic, higher completion percentages).

what's the downfall there?

That is a little more sensible. I thought short passes just got a buff. It would just make balanced teams even stronger though and could have the opposite effect of what you want.