Warrior General Games

I'm not strapped for cash, it's more the time invested thing. I'm going to be sad to have to part ways with my All-Pro's.

And as I said somewhere else, if silly human players would just sign with me I wouldn't have so many players. I'll basically move a player I created off of my team in order to make room for a human player if need be. This is a hard business but I'm starting to figure it out (and having fun with it). Hell, I haven't played poker (that's what I do for a living) or WOW in 3 days. LOL.

I'll try and take it easy on you, but for now enjoy my team... they suck.

Why does everyone feel they are entitled to their characters forever? Do you really want the top players to remain the alpha testers, as it is now? I think retirement is key to this whole system, it's just a necessary evil.

Don't know about the 70% on custom EQ though, but I suppose if everyone got to keep all their FPs they would never buy more. I hope everyone understands that this site has to make a profit to stay around?

But retirement, or something to handle the old players, is going to be needed eventually. Otherwise the leagues will become stagnant with the same people dominating forever more.

Plus it adds an extra bit of strategy to the game.

eeeeeek...dunnno if I agree with a retirement....dont' know if i'm cool with it at all.

Peaking, I can understand. Let's say they peak at whatever level, and don't progress...or progress very slowly....but forcing a retirement is a bit harsh IMO. Would be hard to say goodbye to 'ole Indigo Buckley.

OK, how about a compromise of some sorts... like you can keep the custom equipment (but it can only be equipped by players of a certain level)?

Just voicing my thoughts. I'm a sucker, I'll probably play no matter what, but I just don't like the 30% loss thing personally.

With peaking every team across the entire game will be exactly the same in time.

Hypothetical peak of 10, yes I know it is low but its just to show a point, by mid to late next season 50% of the teams will be all lvl 10s. And that isn't realistic at all. Retirement is realistic.

Originally posted by Graythreat
Peaking, I can understand. Let's say they peak at whatever level, and don't progress...or progress very slowly....but forcing a retirement is a bit harsh IMO. Would be hard to say goodbye to 'ole Indigo Buckley.

I think retirement can be avoided, but stats has to go down, in order to make room for younger players. Maybe Buckley has to settle for 3rd string in his older days, or maybe kick some ass in a minor team in Asia or something?

No problem getting 70% back here. I look at the 30% as money well spent for entertainment and supporting a promising product that I can enjoy again and again.

I don't know where DD got the 70% for forced retirement from - we had discussed something higher than that before, since it's forced on you, but that has nothing to do with my next point.

Forget the FP-related stuff for a moment, and look at it from the perspective of a new user.

If you were to sign up in 10 seasons, and there were a bunch of guys at level 50 or whatever, and you knew that they would never ever retire, and you could never ever catch them because they will just keep getting better and better, don't you think that would suck too? Would you want to play the game at that point? You'd probably just give up, thinking "I can never achieve greatness because everyone will always be better."

However, if the players get old, they retire, and they go to the hall of fame, with their name forever immortalized, then you would know that you would have the chance to reach that glory too. There's suddenly an end goal in the game of football immortality, instead of a never ending chase after something you can't catch. That sounds like a lot more fun to me.

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As for those of you who think we are just in this to "rip you off" or get rich or whatever, you are way off base, and it really hurts me to hear that.

We created this game, in our spare time, while working full time day jobs, because we thought it would be fun. We love football. We love community web games. We're just two regular guys, not some faceless greedy corporation, and we're glad to offer this game to the world, for free.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Our goal when we started the site: at least break even so we can keep the thing running. If we can make it a full time gig, great. If not, we'll do the best we can to keep it going and keep improving it.

I have poured my heart and soul into this game non-stop for the last 7 months, without gaining a single cent until 12 days ago. I've put in 16-20 hour days many many times (today is one of them) during the development of this site because I enjoy working on the game, and I want this to be a fun thing for the masses, not because I want to rip you off.

If you don't think my time and effort is worth paying for, then don't pay for it. It's your choice, and I respect that. Just please don't call me greedy, because I am far from it.

Thanks for the response, I completely understand and agree with forced retirement, I just didn't agree with the loss incurred financially.

I've had a fantastic time my first few days and as ya'll can probably tell I like to talk too much.

I might be giving you another hundo soon Bort.

As someone who has spent a some decent money here, I wasn't even really thinking about or expecting to get that FP back. I don't expect a 60 dollar game to last more then a month, so the idea of that money lasting for a year was great to me.

Players cant last forever in real football whats the problem here?

Forced retirement is a good idea. I think of my former WOW days when people that started from day 1 had all the advantages. Retirement will give newer people a chance to succeed in the game and a HOF would give credit to those that were here from the beginning. I too have spent a chunk of money supporting the site, not knowing what the future may bring, but by judging the game and the type of admins that run it I have no regrets.

I think there are some excellent points in this thread but i'm not sure why anyone cannot see that retirement absolutely HAS to happen. However, I do tend to lean on the idea of getting something in return for a long term investment in the site as opposed to the normal 100% on creation and 70% after. Some things I have thought of are...

A "son" of the former character who gets his custom equipment free and the 3 Level Boosts per season free. Keep the old players last name but does not receive the Flex Point refund.

An "heir" who gets the old players custom equipment and can add 6 more Stat Points(with cost of course) so that 5 years into this game you are passing down an insane piece of custom equipment from a couple of retired players. Can change the last name of the character and receives the 100/70 flex Point refund

A 110% refund on the Flex Points invested into that character. At the absolute least there should be a long term reason to continue playing and putting money into a game. If the character is FORCED into retirement after 15-20 seasons of play that is a pretty decent sum of Flex Points @ 3 boosts per season, but you can't just shoot another high level character up there because 3 boosts per season is the maximum, your new character will move up just as fast as your old one did.

Personally, I don't think having no exceptional return on a retiring player is a big enough matter to stop me from investing right now, but in the interest of the longevity of the game I do think it would be in the best interest of the developers to make a person half looking forward to retirement while half dreading it. The same type of attitude a real player usually seems to have about the idea. Some sort of return on their investment is definitely going to be necessary in the long run in order to keep people interested.

I just wanted to respond to 2 other things I read here also to finish up.

Originally posted by Favre4Ever
No doubt hazyone...

If you put X number of dollars into this site. And then the site FORCES you to stop playing, you should get a 100% refund. But I think we all know why the 70% rule is in effect... it isn't because we have used the points for a year or whatever it is, like someone mentioned earlier.

It is because if we don't have as many points, members will be more likely to pay more.

That is just plain false. To put it into perspective. Maybe you should ask them to allow players that are on a team owned by you to be able to retire at 100%, then see what happens when 1 of them wants more money and you are not willing to deliver, or you have a guy that becomes 2nd string that you'd really like to keep as a backup and he is upset. Allowing a player to retire and get 100% of the Flex Points spent back at any time is bad for the community and would not end well. It means you have to communicate with a player that becomes upset as opposed to watching as the money you invested in him is just gone.I'm not trying to bash on you, just hoping you'll understand why them allowing 100% on retirement at any time is a bad idea.

Originally posted by socnicklin
Lets say you bought your points in bulk, and as demonstrated by some penny pinchers this would be a good idea, you spent $38 dollars on 5000 flex points.

You have a "glamour" position, most expensive. You spend 900 per season boosting, 600 on equipment (there is another equipment bonus at 8 and not sure what it is). Over 10 seasons you will spend ~10000 flex points. That is $76. Over 18 months. $4.22 a month. 30% of that is $1.26. This site is one heck of a scam artist. $1.26 a month, Bort you swine you.

That is for the most expensive position and you can buy more in bulk to make it even cheaper. Factor in the free flex and referrals you can do, not that bad at all.

I love that you did the math, because before I saw your post I wanted to do the math myself. I just wanted to add that the number you came up with is only for one player. I started this game less than a week ago and I already have 3 players and I plan to have MANY more in the future. I find it highly unlikely that many people will have only 1 player and remain highly active. Most will probably have at LEAST 5 by the time #1 retires.

I apologize for my long-winded reply and appreciate that anyone takes the time to read it

-Malakias

After reading this entire thread all I have to say is that YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY FOR THIS GAME! Money is not required for progression! If you don't like the returns after retirement... don't put money into the game. If you don't like the way that things are run by the developers... don't put money into the game. If you think this is a scam... don't put money into the game. Etc etc etc.

Personally, I will put money into the game when I can afford to as long as I continue to love it as much as I do (and I'm brand new). These guys are providing a service to the public out of pure love for the game of football so that the masses can also enjoy it. I'd like to show my appreciation in the way that suits them best, and if cash is the way to do it then I have no problem donating what I can. Since the donations reward me with some benefits, great! Pure incentive. I'd donate even if they didn't reward me. These guys are working hard to provide me with entertainment.