Yep - If sth is goin to happen to zone ints... we need some other buff to it for it to be usable.
Also we need sth vs Trips...
Also we need sth vs Trips...
Forum > Goal Line Blitz 2 > S55 Changelog Suggestions
Xars
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Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
I'm aware how zone works in real life, I'm just saying we should be discussing the game mechanics and game balance instead of making comparisons to it is all.
We've ran Zone on KY & Lex for a bit now and we are not getting high Int counts despite being built to for them...Whose LB's are getting insane amounts of Int currently in the game? These are the recent top Zone MLB in Vet (unless I missed some):
Gilwice: https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/341524
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/341525
Lexington:https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/335276
Kentucky: https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/318201
Himalayas:https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/322278
Here is Rob's Zone S*MLB from before the Pass Power buff:
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/296297
To me it looks like the current generation have nowhere near Rob's numbers (proving that the Pass Power buff worked IMO)... But I digress, are their numbers too high despite that they are basically built to use EotP and get Ints? Do we cripple the build type because we want to reduce Int % rates despite the fact QB's are able to consistently have good completion % vs them? Despite the data presented I don't see how nerfing Zone MLB's/EotP to allow QB's hardly any risk and high completion % balances the game out, in my opinion. For that matter, zone CB's do not constantly sit in underneath coverage to benefit from EoTP and is in part why you don't see them do nearly as well as the MLB. In effect, what you wind up doing is you only nerf Zone and it's not like Trips and Big I are not already showing a weakness in Zone. Where is the line here, would you all only be happy with zone LB's getting single digit Int totals in 30 games despite being built for getting them?
Why not ask for QB Throwing Tactics? It's not like we didn't get the TTN SA already that reduces QB Int rates.
I remember this game https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/805205 and now we can look back and see how two top teams combined for 7 INTs. INTs, TDs, everything really can go nuts when you have big mismatches, but 7 INT games amongst top teams shouldn't be happening. (They didn't in the second game between these two.)
So, I didn't say "Nerf Zone". The original post is to fix the Passing Arc for Pass Power because something is wrong there. Pass Power helps on longer throws, certainly, but the arc thing is a problem.
The consequence of the above should lower Zone INTs, but it may also lower Man as well. We don't know. Some lowering of Zone INTs is needed, but that doesn't mean Zone should be nerfed when Pass Power - at least the arc component - needs a buff.
Overall since this is a game, I'm perfectly fine with having a viable Zone D as alternative to Man. But play calling still needs to matter - in this game it's been argued that it's the most important thing - and it doesn't when plays like 3-4 Cover 3 Tiger isn't getting destroyed by TRIPS.
So to be clear, there should be Zone plays that work decently well against a TRIPS formation, but 3-4 Cover 3 Tiger shouldn't be a viable option and yet it has been for a long time. You can't have one CB cover 3 WRs with a blitzing RO and not think you'd get lit up. And I'm not talking 68% completion for 14 yard catches. I'm talking 50% TD rate because who the f**k is going to cover WR1 on the sideline route when WR2 can run interference/block????
The OPness of the play was overlooked because Zone overall was bad. Now that Zone is viable, certain things should be addressed.
Why not ask for QB Throwing Tactics?
Perhaps that is how they fix the arc. But that's predetermining the solution rather than just stating the problem. It's best not to tell developers how to fix a problem. It's a Scrum/Agile project management thing.
The Pass Arc is a problem. Fixing that will have derivative effects and then we'll address them.
I'm aware how zone works in real life, I'm just saying we should be discussing the game mechanics and game balance instead of making comparisons to it is all.
We've ran Zone on KY & Lex for a bit now and we are not getting high Int counts despite being built to for them...Whose LB's are getting insane amounts of Int currently in the game? These are the recent top Zone MLB in Vet (unless I missed some):
Gilwice: https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/341524
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/341525
Lexington:https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/335276
Kentucky: https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/318201
Himalayas:https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/322278
Here is Rob's Zone S*MLB from before the Pass Power buff:
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/296297
To me it looks like the current generation have nowhere near Rob's numbers (proving that the Pass Power buff worked IMO)... But I digress, are their numbers too high despite that they are basically built to use EotP and get Ints? Do we cripple the build type because we want to reduce Int % rates despite the fact QB's are able to consistently have good completion % vs them? Despite the data presented I don't see how nerfing Zone MLB's/EotP to allow QB's hardly any risk and high completion % balances the game out, in my opinion. For that matter, zone CB's do not constantly sit in underneath coverage to benefit from EoTP and is in part why you don't see them do nearly as well as the MLB. In effect, what you wind up doing is you only nerf Zone and it's not like Trips and Big I are not already showing a weakness in Zone. Where is the line here, would you all only be happy with zone LB's getting single digit Int totals in 30 games despite being built for getting them?
Why not ask for QB Throwing Tactics? It's not like we didn't get the TTN SA already that reduces QB Int rates.
I remember this game https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/805205 and now we can look back and see how two top teams combined for 7 INTs. INTs, TDs, everything really can go nuts when you have big mismatches, but 7 INT games amongst top teams shouldn't be happening. (They didn't in the second game between these two.)
So, I didn't say "Nerf Zone". The original post is to fix the Passing Arc for Pass Power because something is wrong there. Pass Power helps on longer throws, certainly, but the arc thing is a problem.
The consequence of the above should lower Zone INTs, but it may also lower Man as well. We don't know. Some lowering of Zone INTs is needed, but that doesn't mean Zone should be nerfed when Pass Power - at least the arc component - needs a buff.
Overall since this is a game, I'm perfectly fine with having a viable Zone D as alternative to Man. But play calling still needs to matter - in this game it's been argued that it's the most important thing - and it doesn't when plays like 3-4 Cover 3 Tiger isn't getting destroyed by TRIPS.
So to be clear, there should be Zone plays that work decently well against a TRIPS formation, but 3-4 Cover 3 Tiger shouldn't be a viable option and yet it has been for a long time. You can't have one CB cover 3 WRs with a blitzing RO and not think you'd get lit up. And I'm not talking 68% completion for 14 yard catches. I'm talking 50% TD rate because who the f**k is going to cover WR1 on the sideline route when WR2 can run interference/block????
The OPness of the play was overlooked because Zone overall was bad. Now that Zone is viable, certain things should be addressed.
Why not ask for QB Throwing Tactics?
Perhaps that is how they fix the arc. But that's predetermining the solution rather than just stating the problem. It's best not to tell developers how to fix a problem. It's a Scrum/Agile project management thing.
The Pass Arc is a problem. Fixing that will have derivative effects and then we'll address them.
Edited by Xars on Aug 30, 2021 02:34:20
Edited by Xars on Aug 30, 2021 02:33:26
Edited by Xars on Aug 30, 2021 02:25:45
Edited by Xars on Aug 30, 2021 02:20:00
Edited by Xars on Aug 30, 2021 02:19:43
Cybertron
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Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
To me it looks like the current generation have nowhere near Rob's numbers (proving that the Pass Power buff worked IMO)... But I digress, are their numbers too high despite that they are basically built to use EotP and get Ints? Do we cripple the build type because we want to reduce Int % rates despite the fact QB's are able to consistently have good completion % vs them? Despite the data presented I don't see how nerfing Zone MLB's/EotP to allow QB's hardly any risk and high completion % balances the game out, in my opinion. For that matter, zone CB's do not constantly sit in underneath coverage to benefit from EoTP and is in part why you don't see them do nearly as well as the MLB. In effect, what you wind up doing is you only nerf Zone and it's not like Trips and Big I are not already showing a weakness in Zone. Where is the line here, would you all only be happy with zone LB's getting single digit Int totals in 30 games despite being built for getting them?
Why not ask for QB Throwing Tactics? It's not like we didn't get the TTN SA already that reduces QB Int rates.
I agree with Myrik. It is a counter/balance thing, not a "real life football thing". Is it unrealistic for LBs to get that many INTs? Yes. Is it unrealistic for QBs to consistently have high completion % vs LBs? Yes.
One of the biggest issues in this game, is that the QBs are hardly ever off target. They should get way more incompletions from simply being off target. Incompletions come from either, WR dropping the ball or defender makes a play on the ball. The ball is never just off target.
To me it looks like the current generation have nowhere near Rob's numbers (proving that the Pass Power buff worked IMO)... But I digress, are their numbers too high despite that they are basically built to use EotP and get Ints? Do we cripple the build type because we want to reduce Int % rates despite the fact QB's are able to consistently have good completion % vs them? Despite the data presented I don't see how nerfing Zone MLB's/EotP to allow QB's hardly any risk and high completion % balances the game out, in my opinion. For that matter, zone CB's do not constantly sit in underneath coverage to benefit from EoTP and is in part why you don't see them do nearly as well as the MLB. In effect, what you wind up doing is you only nerf Zone and it's not like Trips and Big I are not already showing a weakness in Zone. Where is the line here, would you all only be happy with zone LB's getting single digit Int totals in 30 games despite being built for getting them?
Why not ask for QB Throwing Tactics? It's not like we didn't get the TTN SA already that reduces QB Int rates.
I agree with Myrik. It is a counter/balance thing, not a "real life football thing". Is it unrealistic for LBs to get that many INTs? Yes. Is it unrealistic for QBs to consistently have high completion % vs LBs? Yes.
One of the biggest issues in this game, is that the QBs are hardly ever off target. They should get way more incompletions from simply being off target. Incompletions come from either, WR dropping the ball or defender makes a play on the ball. The ball is never just off target.
Detroit Leos
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Who is to say that a change to passing mechanics hurts zone LBS? If potential solution of lowering the arc for low pass power QBs were implemented, LBs would likely get just as many INTs, if not more...
A different solution to QB builds may kessen them sure, but let's focus on making QB builds more dynamic before then making INT rate adjustments as needed.
This discussion should be less about zone and more about QB pass power being more of a detriment than it is being a critical component of QB builds IMO.
A different solution to QB builds may kessen them sure, but let's focus on making QB builds more dynamic before then making INT rate adjustments as needed.
This discussion should be less about zone and more about QB pass power being more of a detriment than it is being a critical component of QB builds IMO.
Edited by Detroit Leos on Aug 30, 2021 07:57:18
dredgar
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The whole time i have been saying make a QB tactic or Arc to throw change. I never said nerf zone specifically. I agree that we have a decent balance to playcalling. And go look at my games against Zone defense, I throw 3 Int damn near every time.
Cybertron
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I think the pass power arc should be switched between low/high pass power QBs. Meaning, a high pass power QB should throw those long, high arcing passes while a noodle arm QB should throw those low passes that get picked off by LBs...but with much less velocity.
Has anybody ever seen a long pass that has both, high velocity as well as a high arc? Maybe it is possible but the right skills haven't been met? Maybe a QB with very high power and low accuracy are throwing those darts over the middle? Maybe a high power/accuracy/tech QB can throw a long, high arcing pass with high velocity?
Obviously you can't max out all of those skills....but something like 75/75/75.
I have never really built good, passing QBs...so I am just spit balling here.
Has anybody ever seen a long pass that has both, high velocity as well as a high arc? Maybe it is possible but the right skills haven't been met? Maybe a QB with very high power and low accuracy are throwing those darts over the middle? Maybe a high power/accuracy/tech QB can throw a long, high arcing pass with high velocity?
Obviously you can't max out all of those skills....but something like 75/75/75.
I have never really built good, passing QBs...so I am just spit balling here.
Edited by Cybertron on Aug 30, 2021 08:13:09
Edited by Cybertron on Aug 30, 2021 08:12:15
Edited by Cybertron on Aug 30, 2021 08:12:09
Edited by Cybertron on Aug 30, 2021 08:11:01
dredgar
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Originally posted by Cybertron
I think the pass power arc should be switched between low/high pass power QBs. Meaning, a high pass power QB should throw those long, high arcing passes while a noodle arm QB should throw those low passes that get picked off by LBs...but with much less velocity.
Has anybody ever seen a long pass that has both, high velocity as well as a high arc? Maybe it is possible but the right skills haven't been met? Maybe a QB with very high power and low accuracy are throwing those darts over the middle? Maybe a high power/accuracy/tech QB can throw a long, high arcing pass with high velocity?
I have never really build good, passing QBs...so I am just spit balling here.
I have a crazy Star QB build that I havent used in a long time. It does make me curious if it would work really well again.
I think the pass power arc should be switched between low/high pass power QBs. Meaning, a high pass power QB should throw those long, high arcing passes while a noodle arm QB should throw those low passes that get picked off by LBs...but with much less velocity.
Has anybody ever seen a long pass that has both, high velocity as well as a high arc? Maybe it is possible but the right skills haven't been met? Maybe a QB with very high power and low accuracy are throwing those darts over the middle? Maybe a high power/accuracy/tech QB can throw a long, high arcing pass with high velocity?
I have never really build good, passing QBs...so I am just spit balling here.
I have a crazy Star QB build that I havent used in a long time. It does make me curious if it would work really well again.
Cybertron
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Originally posted by dredgar
I have a crazy Star QB build that I havent used in a long time. It does make me curious if it would work really well again.
Obviously you can't max out all of those skills....but something like 75/75/75 (power/accuracy/tech).
I have a crazy Star QB build that I havent used in a long time. It does make me curious if it would work really well again.
Obviously you can't max out all of those skills....but something like 75/75/75 (power/accuracy/tech).
Edited by Cybertron on Aug 30, 2021 08:13:44
BoDiddley
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Originally posted by Cybertron
Has anybody ever seen a long pass that has both, high velocity as well as a high arc? Maybe it is possible but the right skills haven't been met? Maybe a QB with very high power and low accuracy are throwing those darts over the middle? Maybe a high power/accuracy/tech QB can throw a long, high arcing pass with high velocity?
Obviously you can't max out all of those skills....but something like 75/75/75.
I have never really built good, passing QBs...so I am just spit balling here.
Tecmo Mahomes had nearly that with 90+ tech, and 80+ power, didn't help. Pass Power determines arc.
Has anybody ever seen a long pass that has both, high velocity as well as a high arc? Maybe it is possible but the right skills haven't been met? Maybe a QB with very high power and low accuracy are throwing those darts over the middle? Maybe a high power/accuracy/tech QB can throw a long, high arcing pass with high velocity?
Obviously you can't max out all of those skills....but something like 75/75/75.
I have never really built good, passing QBs...so I am just spit balling here.
Tecmo Mahomes had nearly that with 90+ tech, and 80+ power, didn't help. Pass Power determines arc.
Edited by BoDiddley on Aug 30, 2021 08:45:20
dredgar
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Originally posted by Cybertron
Obviously you can't max out all of those skills....but something like 75/75/75 (power/accuracy/tech).
lmao nah, you can do 100tech/90acc/50 power really easy. Now getting power up higher is were it takes some play for sure. But my regular QB has 80tech/79acc/50 power and he is non star.
Obviously you can't max out all of those skills....but something like 75/75/75 (power/accuracy/tech).
lmao nah, you can do 100tech/90acc/50 power really easy. Now getting power up higher is were it takes some play for sure. But my regular QB has 80tech/79acc/50 power and he is non star.
Cybertron
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Originally posted by BoDiddley
Tecmo Mahomes had nearly that with 90+ tech, and 80+ power, didn't help. Pass Power determines arc.
What was his accuracy?
Tecmo Mahomes had nearly that with 90+ tech, and 80+ power, didn't help. Pass Power determines arc.
What was his accuracy?
dredgar
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Originally posted by Cybertron
And with this skill set, he is throwing bullets to a WR running deep and getting picked off by LBs? No arc?
No arc really at all. We threw more bullets most of the time for sure. Now there are times those bullets help a ton, but also made a lot of throws get snagged by defenders.
And with this skill set, he is throwing bullets to a WR running deep and getting picked off by LBs? No arc?
No arc really at all. We threw more bullets most of the time for sure. Now there are times those bullets help a ton, but also made a lot of throws get snagged by defenders.
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