Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Corndog
So Zone is OP now?

No

Originally posted by Raid
It's more like QBs weren't designed to make good decisions against it at all, no matter how familiar with the play.

I like this conclusion and agree with Boss. We were gonna go zone up until the last moment but changed b/c we're old farts and felt like zone is the same plays over and over again

Im not sure where you guys are seeing the problems. My vet team is a balanced offense with a man defense. I also run the defense for a vet team that does zone defense. Both do really well. I actually allow A LOT less points and yards with the man defense, but yes the zone defense does get a lot more turnovers. Zone is beatable if you have the team for it and know how to target it really. Some plays will work perfect if you have the players to beat it.

Also on the note of pass power it actually makes a big impact. My QB has 50 pass power, most people are around 30 I believe. My QB tends to throw darts down the middle of the field to the TE between to zone lbs.

Zone defense has some weaknesses, but most try to use their standard stuff against it.

Originally posted by _OSIRIS_
Zone defense has some weaknesses, but most try to use their standard stuff against it.

exactly

Originally posted by _OSIRIS_
Zone defense has some weaknesses, but most try to use their standard stuff against it.

No offense, but zone is super easy to counter at low tiers, and stupid hard to counter at high tiers.

Nearly any time you throw it over a defender at high tiers it is an INT, the game makes it so easy for them and the main defense you have against it at the lower tiers is keeping them demoralized after they miss a few of those.

I know of at least 1 team that in vet that is now running zone after being man to man even last season, and literally just using minimal skills to still be effective - considering how much I see zone anymore, they probably aren't alone. You don't need a lot in INT or zone awareness to catch a ball thrown directly to you because a QB literally doesn't take you into account when deciding to throw.

Zone gives away more yardage in general, but the turnovers and the HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE swings in morale from them kill the offense soon enough.

I just watched the Lexington vs Southside playoff game. Southside threw for 80% completion rate, zero Ints, 8.9 ypp , and 3TDs in a blowout. That was against an elite vet zone defense.

Originally posted by _OSIRIS_
I just watched the Lexington vs Southside playoff game. Southside threw for 80% completion rate, zero Ints, 8.9 ypp , and 3TDs in a blowout. That was against an elite vet zone defense.

It can happen, team can get demoralized before they get the foothold, but I'm sure if you watch the replay the QB will have thrown it over plenty of players heads directly and given them a free shot at the ball. It just more than likely happened after they were too demoralized to make good plays on the ball.

morale is make or break in this game, big time.

As I said, it's not so much OP, especially because of its hit or miss nature, but QBs don't read it properly at all and there is no way to build a player to do so. There is no way to make a QB 'good' against zone. There is just building momentum against it to the point that the opponents don't take advantage of your QB being blind and throwing it right at them, and sometimes even if you plan to not throw much the AI will just do it anyhow and you hit a spiral.

Think of how different that game could have gone if this really, really bad decision of a throw ended up turning into a pick-6

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/712218/2211295

Right off the bat he's throwing it right at guys.

Originally posted by Raid
Think of how different that game could have gone if this really, really bad decision of a throw ended up turning into a pick-6

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/712218/2211295

Right off the bat he's throwing it right at guys.

so did brett favre...

Originally posted by o The Boss x
He's 23-24 vert and not even max height

SHHHHHHHH its my secret formula of... well i got nothing who knows what vert actually means on this game, im sure its a mix of the vert roll and the int roll with some form of awareness roll... and the who knows roll... i mean maybe those were low throws that the receivers would normally dive for? I wonder if they have a way to put in the builds as an option to lob or throw strikes for certain distances... nobody throw that liner on deep balls unless the guy is wide open... otherwise the liner like that can be an easy pick

Originally posted by vipermaw82
SHHHHHHHH its my secret formula of... well i got nothing who knows what vert actually means on this game, im sure its a mix of the vert roll and the int roll with some form of awareness roll... and the who knows roll... i mean maybe those were low throws that the receivers would normally dive for? I wonder if they have a way to put in the builds as an option to lob or throw strikes for certain distances... nobody throw that liner on deep balls unless the guy is wide open... otherwise the liner like that can be an easy pick


There should be a QB tactic for lobs or strikes.

Seems in zone defenses the defenders just hang in their zones facing the QB once the receiver passes through. This puts them in perfect position to jump for the ball coming through their zone. Successfully running the ball should limit a lot of the Ints.

Originally posted by _OSIRIS_
There should be a QB tactic for lobs or strikes.

Seems in zone defenses the defenders just hang in their zones facing the QB once the receiver passes through. This puts them in perfect position to jump for the ball coming through their zone. Successfully running the ball should limit a lot of the Ints.

whats this running the ball of which you speak?

I used to routinely wreck GE's zone teams with my old KY Mountaineer man def teams and prob had a hand in retiring him after I beat his last great zone team. It's all about strategy. You don't need some artificial mechanic to help you beat zone, just game plan for it like we all did.

And your right, zone is easier to beat at lower levels because it doesn't have its skills and abilities built up yet... you have to take your lumps early on, yes, in hopes to pay off in the last few seasons. Zone lives and dies on its TO ratio, it is more random than man teams...it gives up yards in hopes to demoralize your opponent and give your offense more opportunities. It literally depends on getting TOs.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
I used to routinely wreck GE's zone teams with my old KY Mountaineer man def teams and prob had a hand in retiring him after I beat his last great zone team. It's all about strategy. You don't need some artificial mechanic to help you beat zone, just game plan for it like we all did.

And your right, zone is easier to beat at lower levels because it doesn't have its skills and abilities built up yet... you have to take your lumps early on, yes, in hopes to pay off in the last few seasons. Zone lives and dies on its TO ratio, it is more random than man teams...it gives up yards in hopes to demoralize your opponent and give your offense more opportunities. It literally depends on getting TOs.

And it's become easier to get INTs since back then. It's fundamentally broken not because zone is OP, but because QBs don't read it properly, so the only way to balance it is to make INTs more luck and morale based than raw skill based.

I mean, the guys who get the most INTs in this game aren't the ones who invest heavily in it, but the other skills to make sure they are in place and ready for the attempt. I've seen guys with 35 and lower in INT get multiple per game and overall are the best CB builds I've seen. Tends to be if you invest in INT you end up spending away the points that actually help you get them.


The single problem in all this is that QBs have no ability to read defenders between them and the person that is 'open'. And the further away that person is from the QB himself, the less likely the QB should be able to think he can throw it over that player's head.


And above all else, QBs who KNOW a play has an OLB shifting to the left for his zone shouldn't throw it directly to where the OLB's zone is all because the OLB is still moving there. If the QB knows the play, he should know that is not going to work. That one would probably be harder to pull off as the 'fix' would be to have the QB read defenders as being where he knows they are going instead of where they are but that could cause issue in itself... It's just annoying to not have any recourse aside from to cheer on my coaches as a player builder against zone.