Warrior General Games

i wouldn't say those skills are useless you just need to employ a passing offense with a lot of cuts to see value in those skills. that's where coverage technique would/should help.

Originally posted by ThePh33P
Well if it's a very small part of the equation then it's not relevant enough. As it's currently the only skill with the description of "keeping up in coverage". I've also seen the argument it's an almost unused skill while playing in zone. Which makes sense if we look at the description.

As a new player the points spent on both man awareness and coverage technique have felt unimpactful compared to deflection and interception which I believe have inherently low base values. At this point I've moved CPU FS players to my CB slots on my team for the higher base power tackling. I'm guessing higher pursuit as well as they seem pretty decent against the run.

Man awareness still has a major effect, watch cbs on post routes and curls routes, low awareness will stall out

it has an effect yes but a "major" effect is still tbd. In my experience you can expect faster breaks on the ball but its rarely consequential. I'll actually be doing a stream shortly watching game tape with both my players and a couple others and come cpu players to compare how CB's Function in the game and the mechanics i believe are at play.

The simple solution would be to increase the value of route tech/elusiveness AND increase the value of coverage tech, no? Otherwise it's a net positive for the offense instead of a rebalance for coverage positions.

And based on the description, man awareness is the counter to head fake, not coverage tech? That's another way to make buff coverage tech, make it counter the route tech/elusiveness SA instead of awareness.

Originally posted by Lemoncow
The simple solution would be to increase the value of route tech/elusiveness AND increase the value of coverage tech, no? Otherwise it's a net positive for the offense instead of a rebalance for coverage positions.

Increasing all of them will leave us where we are now tho

I would boost Route tech/elus since those are 2 separate skills to invest into, cov tech is cheap, and it could possibly make more plays in the o playbook useful

When I say "value" I mean importance. There are different ways to implement that. You could lower the base value for those stats, increase the frequency of contested rolls, or increase the range of a failed roll.


Giving route/elusiveness a boost only serves to make all DBs objectively worse.

Originally posted by Lemoncow
Giving route/elusiveness a boost only serves to make all DBs objectively worse.

I think you're forgetting that route elusiveness costs SP.

People don't invest in route elusiveness because it isn't worth the SP. Which means DBs have no reason to invest in coverage technique because WRs don't invest in route elusiveness.

If we want DBs to have a reason to invest into coverage technique, WRs need a reason to invest into route elusiveness. Route elusiveness is already weak because it's so easily countered by coverage technique, making coverage technique stronger doesn't change any of that math.

Leave it as it is. Some teams do incorporate route elusiveness so if U want stop top team's passing game U need coverage tech.

Another question as admin is here How do deep help affect CB play? DO CB play differently when he got cover 1, cover 2 or no help? That should be the case or it is my self suggestion?

Secondly - how initial alignment affect coverage? e.g TE will be better covered by SS that starts deep (m2m) or will it be better to use OLB that is much closer initially?

Could both lower cov tech's effectiveness as well as raise elusiveness' at the same time. Would make it interesting, probably need to test any of these ideas out to make sure the swing doesn't flop entirely in the offense's favor.

Originally posted by Corndog
Route elusiveness is already weak because it's so easily countered by coverage technique, making coverage technique stronger doesn't change any of that math.

Cdog,

I haven't checked recently, but perhaps RE and CT need to be re-aligned SP cost wise like Intimidation and Toughness were?

But yeah in all my testing, investing in RE actually LOWERED WR performance. Why?

Opportunity cost of not investing in higher ROI skills.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but...

Every route outside of go routes have cuts and changes of direction in them. How can route tech/elusiveness not matter?

As a disclaimer, I'm not complaining. WRs/CBs seem to be pretty well balanced at the moment, but I'm always for more build diversity.

To answer Oofty's original question...

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/281660 is the highest active all-time HOF CB.

If I were giving this owner(no affiliation ) advice on remaking, I'd probably tell him to leave tech at the minimum, max int, put whatever is left over in quickness, and gold sure-footed instead of cover expert. But it's hard to argue against coverage tech/cover expert when he's put up such good numbers over his career.

Originally posted by ThePh33P
it has an effect yes but a "major" effect is still tbd. In my experience you can expect faster breaks on the ball but its rarely consequential. I'll actually be doing a stream shortly watching game tape with both my players and a couple others and come cpu players to compare how CB's Function in the game and the mechanics i believe are at play.

As one of the oldest vets around trust me and the other vets we all keep man awareness over 80....really 90. We all heavily use it, I have seen a direct increase in pass defense by increasing everyone on my teams. I have 50 championships to show a good portion of it.

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/281817 14th all-time HOF CB

Ronald Darby, a non-superstar player is definitely a testament to how effective non-coverage tech builds are.

I agree with Dredgar 80 man awareness minimum is definitely a staple for a good CB.