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MrMoose
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Originally posted by General Terms

As far as were to draw the line I dont know. I guess thats why I was looking for the discussion. My team did play Pocatello, which of course added alot of stats, but not nearly as much as any team that got to play the Turkey Gobblers, which my team never has an opportunity to play. On the other side of that too everyone in Zeta conference had to play Vegas, Samoans, Inmates, Hippos, Rain, etc. all very strong teams. Now Alpha also has strong teams as well, but are they as strong? Or are they stronger yet? Would the league stat leaders be the same if the Gangsters had to have played Northbrook? Perhaps Northbrook would have put up 5 TDs against the Gangsters thus decimating their statistically dominating defense. We wont know until the playoffs, hell we might never know.


Thing is, we can't compare based off of possibilities, but based off of what we have. Look at it this way: Samoa's stats still dominate despite NOT getting a chance to play the Turkey Gobblers. We got Pocatello, who definitely put up more of a fight. We also still had to play really good teams in the Bears, the Devils, the Rain, the Inmates, Wollongong. We also got to play some teams that we beat rather easily -- teams that everyone in the division got a chance to beat rather easily. As far as I'm concerned, the week 16 matchups shouldn't count for or against anyone when considering best players since some teams have to play Northbrook while one lucky person gets to play the Turkey Gobblers. Sure, Northbrook could have put up five touchdowns against Samoa, if they got lucky. However, I really do think the top teams in either conference are fairly close competitive-level wise and most could take on any of the other top teams and, more often than not, split a series of 7 games.

Really, though, in the end -- this is pretend internet football. We don't have true game film to go watch, we don't get to see players interviewed on TV to get an idea of their personality, we don't have all the stats that people in the real world have when deciding these things. All we have, really is stats. Though, more often than not, the best overall statistics player wins the award in professional sports. Some statistics have more weight placed on them (for example, in baseball, more emphasis may be placed on one stat over another for MVP) but stats are often a major deciding factor in who takes home an award. If you only consider weeks 1-15, the awards are fair within divisions since every team plays against every team. Are they as fair within conference? I'm not as sure about that one. But both conferences to have their weak teams and their strong teams.
Last edited Jul 11, 2008 12:25:14
 
52500
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Originally posted by MrMoose

...we don't get to see players interviewed on
TV to get an idea of their personality....


we have the press releases. Which would imply that phil's personality is not something to make an mvp of.
 
NavyGiant
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Coach of the Year: Perth Pirates
Offensive Coordinator of the Year: Samoa Gangsters
Defensive Coordinator of the Year: Northbrooke Nightmare
League MVP: Bob Avellini

Offense:
Center: Bill Badass
Full Back: Gene Parmesan 52 Pancakes
Guard: Slap Entickle
Half Back: McAnderson
Offensive Tackle: Chris Shaffer
Quarterback: Bob Avellini
Tight End: Patrick Obando
Wide Receiver: Joel Robinson


Defense:
Cornerback: Tee Bone
Defensive End: Mister Moose
Defensive Tackle: Flesh Gordon.
Free Safety: I'm Rick James
Line Backer: Candyman #66
Strong Safety: Rambo Smoke

Special Teams:
Kicker: Tally Dawg
Punter: Ray Guy
Returner: David Easterling (19 yd PR ave. and 3 TD's.)
Last edited Jul 14, 2008 01:03:37
 
jjo13
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Coach of the Year: Fantasy Football Inmates

Offensive Coordinator of the Year: Samoa OC

Defensive Coordinator of the Year: Northbrook DC

League MVP: Bob Avellini

Offense:
Center: Bill Badas
Full Back: Gene Parmesan
Guard: Vincent VonPoosay
Half Back: Randolph McAnderson
Offensive Tackle: Chris Shaffer
Quarterback: Bob Avellini
Tight End: Patrick Obando
Wide Receiver: Joel Robinson

Defense:
Cornerback: Tee Bone
Defensive End: Boomer McDude
Defensive Tackle: Flesh Gordon
Free Safety: I'm Rick James
Line Backer: Candyman #66
Strong Safety: Rambo Smoke

Special Teams:
Kicker: Tally Dawg
Punter: Ryan Mias
Returner: David Easterling
 
General Terms
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Originally posted by MrMoose

Though, more often than not, the best overall statistics player wins the award in professional sports. Some statistics have more weight placed on them (for example, in baseball, more emphasis may be placed on one stat over another for MVP) but stats are often a major deciding factor in who takes home an award. If you only consider weeks 1-15, the awards are fair within divisions since every team plays against every team. Are they as fair within conference? I'm not as sure about that one. But both conferences to have their weak teams and their strong teams.


As far as real life sports are concerned the MVP usually ends up being the most popular player award. The MLB all star teams, look at all the ridiculous choices fans make for that every year. Usually Boston fans which are rabid to begin with stuff the ballot box. Another example of popularity contest was this years NBA MVP goes to Bryant I think I remember, but it was Chris Paul who clearly was the MOST VALUABLE to their team.

That is kind of the point I have been getting at in a roundabout way with this thread. Most Valuable is the award. Not the Most Bestest. Most Bestest should be the top stat makers. Most Valuable is a different story altogether.

In regards to the best determiner based on who played who across conference problem perhaps that could be solved by issuing Alpha and Zeta awards. Of course this would be for the Most Bestest award scenario because the Most Valuable award I think should be less based on stats and more on their impact to their respective teams.
 
MrMoose
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All star teams are not the same thing as best player awards, since a huge portion of them are voted on by the fans and not the players.

And as I understood it, the main award was the MVP, and then "Best at position" for everyone else. Also, nothing says "This is the guy that is most valuable to his team". The idea of MVP is a bit up in the air, as Most Valuable could mean best player at that position since he would be the most valuable guy to have on that team. It could mean most valuable within his team, or it could mean many other things.

And I do agree -- I think awarding Alpha and Zeta separately in the future would be best, and having a couple of cross conference awards (Defense MVP, Offense MVP) would be best. Of course, you could argue, even then, about determining an MVP based on stats -- being pretend internet football, we don't get to really gauge a lot of things that might make a guy more valuable to his team where we might in the real world. Pretty much, you'd have to watch every single play of every single game in the conference to determine just who was more valuable to their team and why. And even then, in a lot of cases, it will be the guy that puts up insane stats compared to the next guy at his position. Basically, we're having to try to determine intangibles that, while hard to determine in the real world, are virtually impossible in pretend internet football.

To go back to the NFL example I mentioned earlier: I, personally, feel that Brett Favre was much more valuable to the Packers than Brady was to the Patriots -- the Pats were the type of team that probably could have been successful with a serviceable quarterback, but I doubt the Packers would have done jack this year without Favre back there. So that would agree with your idea of popularity contest, but I think it had more to do with gaudy stats.

Note I do agree with you mostly on your determination of OC/DC of the year, and do feel that guys who do more with less should be considered more highly, though guys that have more shouldn't be excluded either. But a guy with more having a good season isn't as big in my mind as a guy with less having a great season relative to his talent, if you catch my drift.

What it boils down to for me: Ieat Babies, my NT on Samoa, was highly valuable to the team, but put up little to no stats -- he was often commanding double and triple teams on the line. Because of this, he didn't get to the backfield, but many of Samoa's other D Linemen did. You could make an argument that he was instrumental in Moose/Flesh/Hey QB's dominance. But, how do we determine that him doing that was more valuable than another DT who put up more sacks but didn't command double teams, or even the WR who drew coverage so much that other guys got open? This sim isn't evolved enough yet to take all of those intricacies into account, so the bulk of what we have to go off of is stats, stats and more stats.
Last edited Jul 11, 2008 22:44:36
 
MeanMachine
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Coach of the Year: Fantasy Football Inmates
Offensive Coordinator of the Year: Samoa OC
Defensive Coordinator of the Year: Northbrook DC
League MVP: Bob Avellini

Offense:
Center: Bill Badas
Full Back: Gene Parmesan
Guard: Vincent von Poosay
Half Back: Randolph McAnderson
Offensive Tackle: Chris Shaffer
Quarterback: Bob Avellini
Tight End: Patrick Obando
Wide Receiver: Joel Robinson


Defense:
Cornerback: Tee Bone
Defensive End: Mister Moose
Defensive Tackle: Charles E. Greene
Free Safety: I'm Rick James
Line Backer: Candyman #66
Strong Safety: Rambo Smoke

Special Teams:
Kicker: Tally Dawg
Punter: Ray Guy
Returner: David Easterling
 
shaffe
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Forgive my ignorance, and I really don't mean to call anybody out, what what has Vincent VonPoosay done to deserve the nod at guard? I looked at his profile and he's got what seems to be a good build (judging from the bars) but his stats don't even compare to several other guards in the league.

I say this because I think my teammate Slap Entickle (among several others) is getting overlooked hardcore by these folks voting for VonPoosay.
Last edited Jul 12, 2008 17:46:32
 
Manachanter
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Originally posted by shaffe
Forgive my ignorance, and I really don't mean to call anybody out, what what has Vincent VonPoosay done to deserve the nod at guard? I looked at his profile and he's got what seems to be a good build (judging from the bars) but his stats don't even compare to several other guards in the league.

I say this because I think my teammate Slap Entickle (among several others) is getting overlooked hardcore by these folks voting for VonPoosay.


It's quite simple: the way 'votes' go on forums is people either vote for the forum trolls or just copy+paste what the last person voted for

90% of the 'nominations' have nothing to do with stats or performance. As others have pointed out the vast majority of MVP awards are actually popularity awards. Which is why it's pointless even taking part in them, the entertainment comes from laughing at how ridiculous some of the nominations are.
 
Chetro
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Originally posted by Manachanter
Originally posted by shaffe

Forgive my ignorance, and I really don't mean to call anybody out, what what has Vincent VonPoosay done to deserve the nod at guard? I looked at his profile and he's got what seems to be a good build (judging from the bars) but his stats don't even compare to several other guards in the league.

I say this because I think my teammate Slap Entickle (among several others) is getting overlooked hardcore by these folks voting for VonPoosay.


It's quite simple: the way 'votes' go on forums is people either vote for the forum trolls or just copy+paste what the last person voted for

90% of the 'nominations' have nothing to do with stats or performance. As others have pointed out the vast majority of MVP awards are actually popularity awards. Which is why it's pointless even taking part in them, the entertainment comes from laughing at how ridiculous some of the nominations are.


You think? I was actually thinking most of the nominations came from people just listing league/conference leaders, many of whom have inflated stats because of cupcake games.
 
jjo13
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Originally posted by TallyDawg
VOTING ONLY! PLEASE USE THE MVP DISCUSSION THREAD FOR ALL OTHER TALK



 
deasterling32
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Originally posted by shaffe
Forgive my ignorance, and I really don't mean to call anybody out, what what has Vincent VonPoosay done to deserve the nod at guard? I looked at his profile and he's got what seems to be a good build (judging from the bars) but his stats don't even compare to several other guards in the league.

I say this because I think my teammate Slap Entickle (among several others) is getting overlooked hardcore by these folks voting for VonPoosay.


i know "voting only" but i think you are aren't paying attention to the fact that slap entickle has gotten votes from the bulldogs(von voosays team)(my team) so chill out, or better yet, inspire your team to vote
 
ShockFett
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I thought we could vote for who ever we wanted.

I know I will.
 
General Terms
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Originally posted by deasterling32
Originally posted by shaffe

Forgive my ignorance, and I really don't mean to call anybody out, what what has Vincent VonPoosay done to deserve the nod at guard? I looked at his profile and he's got what seems to be a good build (judging from the bars) but his stats don't even compare to several other guards in the league.

I say this because I think my teammate Slap Entickle (among several others) is getting overlooked hardcore by these folks voting for VonPoosay.


i know "voting only" but i think you are aren't paying attention to the fact that slap entickle has gotten votes from the bulldogs(von voosays team)(my team) so chill out, or better yet, inspire your team to vote


I am not going to push my players to vote for my own guy. See the "popularity contest" issue for the reason. All votes are appreciated regardless of who it comes from.
 
Vikes_King
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Coach of the Year: PG - Perth Pirates
Offensive Coordinator of the Year: Chetro/Sam King (mainly Chetro) - Perth Pirates
Defensive Coordinator of the Year: Rush Hour/Monk4HOF - Perth Pirates
League MVP - Platinum Legg - Perth Pirates

Offense:
Center: Tyler Hamilton - Perth Pirates
Full Back: Chuck Riggins - Perth Pirates
Guard: L Chunk Cohen - Perth Pirates
Half Back: Jake Roberts - Perth Pirates
Offensive Tackle: Joseph Thorbjorn - Perth Pirates
Quarterback: Joey Quickdraw - Perth Pirates
Tight End: Fingers McPherson - Perth Pirates
Wide Receiver: Brandon Stokeey - Perth Pirates

Defense:
Cornerback: Sam King - Perth Pirates (Rush Hour & Devin Hester-Kin close seconds, but i like me and my 3 DefTDs more than i like you guys lol)
Defensive End: Boomer McDude (honorable mention: Piotr "Colossus" Rasputin) - Perth Pirates
Defensive Tackle: Hungry Hungry Hippo - Perth Pirates
Free Safety: Rob Snowden - Perth Pirates
Line Backer: Vlad Khamchetke - Perth Pirates
Strong Safety: Weapons Plus - Perth Pirates

Special Teams:
Kicker: Richard Rimshot - Perth Pirates
Punter: Platinum Legg - Perth Pirates
Special Teams: Devin Hester-King - Perth Pirates




Yea, that just happpened
 
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