Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Galactic Empire
You don't need a lot of quickness if your player is not making many cuts and running mostly long distances in a straight line. Quickness on zone defenders is THE #1 skill needed, with footwork close behind. They change directions constantly. WRs that run deep routes don't need much quickness, but WRs that run alot of patterns with cuts do. It all boils down to how much cutting and change of direction your player is doing...or acceleration.
again, I disagree. Sprinting is the #1 skill needed for zone defenses. You can probably get away with absolutely zero quickness or footwork investment for a zone D since your players are just kind of hovering in their zones, and then once they see where the ball is going they're just running in a straight line to it, while man D players need to be able to keep up with shiftier receivers to follow them in their routes.

Originally posted by Kayoh

again, I disagree. Sprinting is the #1 skill needed for zone defenses. You can probably get away with absolutely zero quickness or footwork investment for a zone D since your players are just kind of hovering in their zones, and then once they see where the ball is going they're just running in a straight line to it, while man D players need to be able to keep up with shiftier receivers to follow them in their routes.

the footwork part is wrong though. you have to think that players in zone defense are always backpedalling. so you want them to be able to do that fluid and effcient. the quickness is iffy. if they can get to full speed faster with higher quickness that will help a ton.

Originally posted by Kayoh

again, I disagree. Sprinting is the #1 skill needed for zone defenses. You can probably get away with absolutely zero quickness or footwork investment for a zone D since your players are just kind of hovering in their zones, and then once they see where the ball is going they're just running in a straight line to it, while man D players need to be able to keep up with shiftier receivers to follow them in their routes.

Pretty sure I saw a Parab00n post in the last few days that said he built a Zone D and focused on Sprinting because he was convinced GE was wrong about Quick/Foot.

Until he started to invest in Quick/Foot because GE was right actually.

Quickness helps tremendously with 20yd Shuttle times - which is what Zone players are doing once you think about it.

Originally posted by Xars

Quickness helps tremendously with 20yd Shuttle times - which is what Zone players are doing once you think about it.

Thank you Xars.

See reading this thread doesn't convince me on quickness, but I definitely get why you'd want to invest in footwork for zone players now.

Originally posted by Kayoh

again, I disagree. Sprinting is the #1 skill needed for zone defenses. You can probably get away with absolutely zero quickness or footwork investment for a zone D since your players are just kind of hovering in their zones, and then once they see where the ball is going they're just running in a straight line to it, while man D players need to be able to keep up with shiftier receivers to follow them in their routes.

i your not building footwork on dbs your doing something wrong. they track the ball carrier alot better causing them to make more tackles

Originally posted by chronicbomb
i your not building footwork on dbs your doing something wrong. they track the ball carrier alot better causing them to make more tackles
any CBs I've ever had a hand in building take footwork to at least 70. They're also all man coverage specialists.

Personally I like Man CBs to be something like 70 Footwork, 60 Sprinting, 40-50 Quickness.

I'm definitely in the "Quickness is overrated" camp. I'll take more Sprinting over more Quickness for almost any player on the field.

Originally posted by Kayoh
See reading this thread doesn't convince me on quickness, but I definitely get why you'd want to invest in footwork for zone players now.

Show me the Zone player running 40 yards in a straight line.

I'll show you a ton of them doing 20yd Shuttles.

Not sold on Quickness? Next time you're building a player, watch the 20yd Shuttle time change as you add Quickness vs. Sprinting. Quickness lowers it much faster.

Originally posted by Xars
Show me the Zone player running 40 yards in a straight line.

I'll show you a ton of them doing 20yd Shuttles.

Not sold on Quickness? Next time you're building a player, watch the 20yd Shuttle time change as you add Quickness vs. Sprinting. Quickness lowers it much faster.

I agree with xars so much here. I would love to see a team that used quickness more across the board on skill positions. I would be willing to be the CBs would be able to hang with wrs even better. The safeties could actually fly in back zone quite a bit more as well.

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/209532/1785438

Basically a random play I picked. The FS and MLB are both in zone here and both make pretty nice breaks on the ball imo. Both guys are 30s Quickness and ~80 Sprinting. I just don't see more Quickness being worth the cost.

Xars I feel like you're too focused on those combine stats and thinking in terms of 20/40 yds. What I see watching replays is acceleration is such a short time period that it really doesn't matter that much. If a player is hovering around with Footwork, it seems like they're close enough to max speed already that when they do flip that switch, I think it's mostly Sprinting driving the speed.

Originally posted by Spastic_Cowboy
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/209532/1785438

Basically a random play I picked. The FS and MLB are both in zone here and both make pretty nice breaks on the ball imo. Both guys are 30s Quickness and ~80 Sprinting. I just don't see more Quickness being worth the cost.

Xars I feel like you're too focused on those combine stats and thinking in terms of 20/40 yds. What I see watching replays is acceleration is such a short time period that it really doesn't matter that much. If a player is hovering around with Footwork, it seems like they're close enough to max speed already that when they do flip that switch, I think it's mostly Sprinting driving the speed.

they do break at a decent speed. but i have a SS that has less speed and 45 quickness right now and he reacts much faster to the ball and gets flying too.

Speed is still very important thought, dont get me wrong. having speed around 80 makes quickness not as needed sometimes. but if you are talking guys in zone defense or cbs and wrs making cuts. the quickness up more keeps them going full speed at all times. for instantce, when you have a cb guarding the wr. the qb throws the ball short of the route. the wr stops and turns for the ball. the cb on the other hand stops but just doesnt have time to start moving back to the ball fast enough. most cbs have 65+ speed at vet. if they had say 70 quickness i would guess they would be able to stop and get going again faster.

Originally posted by dredgar
they do break at a decent speed. but i have a SS that has less speed and 45 quickness right now and he reacts much faster to the ball and gets flying too.

Speed is still very important thought, dont get me wrong. having speed around 80 makes quickness not as needed sometimes. but if you are talking guys in zone defense or cbs and wrs making cuts. the quickness up more keeps them going full speed at all times. for instantce, when you have a cb guarding the wr. the qb throws the ball short of the route. the wr stops and turns for the ball. the cb on the other hand stops but just doesnt have time to start moving back to the ball fast enough. most cbs have 65+ speed at vet. if they had say 70 quickness i would guess they would be able to stop and get going again faster.

I think you're getting more into the real value of Quickness here..changing direction without losing speed. I definitely agree it helps, but the opportunity cost is usually too high for me. Of course my guys could break quicker with more Quickness, but I think the overall value you get from a 2:1 Sprinting to Quickness is much better.

Cov Tech will play a big role in what you said about the CB too.

there have been a few of us that have made younger guys with much lower cov tech and a bit higher quickness and other areas and done as well.

Originally posted by dredgar
they do break at a decent speed. but i have a SS that has less speed and 45 quickness right now and he reacts much faster to the ball and gets flying too.



btw that part isn't Quickness/Sprinting, that's Man/Zone Awr