Warrior General Games

Originally posted by dredgar
my vet team has a hb with 80+ speed and quickness is almost that high. his carr awa is maxed 94ish. and he still wont break away a ton. now he does look extremely quick and cut around and juke everyone still though.

Central has a HB with 60 Quickness, 92 Sprinting, and 98 Carry Awr. He doesn't break away quite as much as I'd expect..Conditioning does need some work still. But overall 11 ypc and 175 ypg as the #3 back.

Originally posted by dbill
Could be just less speed is valued higher for D. If it wasn't then everyone would just build 100 speed guys and the D would be out of luck as they already have issues building to counter pure team builds and still be able to stop both

Yes, but how often Do HBS break free? It's like in real football, if you break free then speed is the only thing that counts

Originally posted by Spastic_Cowboy
I don't really have an explanation for the play in the OP. I agree it wasn't energy.

edit: looking at it closer, I'm not sure the defender really ran him down..just stayed within diving range because of the angle. The speed difference wasn't that great and it seems like the angle was able to offset it for just long enough.

Nah...Look at the replay and total yards per Tick vertically. The defender does make more vertical yards in fact. I really think it's pursuit, but dont know obviously.
Still, in an open field Situation like that a 0.3 advantage with more energy shouldnt be an issue at all. Should be an easy TD imo.

I Do can live with the fact it isnt. But what made the difference? Im just curious here

Originally posted by peeti
Yes, but how often Do HBS break free? It's like in real football, if you break free then speed is the only thing that counts

Most (Good) RBs in RL have like 4.4-4.5 speed. Very few have 4.3 speed and they normally not that great. And many and most get run down from behind more often than they make it the 60-70-80 yards. In RL runs that long are a result of great downfield blocking by teammate's more than not.

Exhibit A-Chris Johnson

Jamal Charles is about the only pure speed back who has been any good in a while now. More are shifty or decent speed with good power now

So back to the why let the O just build 100 speed guys to exploit the D who could never afford to do the same?

Originally posted by peeti
Nah...Look at the replay and total yards per Tick vertically. The defender does make more vertical yards in fact. I really think it's pursuit, but dont know obviously.
Still, in an open field Situation like that a 0.3 advantage with more energy shouldnt be an issue at all. Should be an easy TD imo.

I Do can live with the fact it isnt. But what made the difference? Im just curious here

The defender from the OP's pursuit is 72 if that helps at all with your evaluation.

Going the distance:

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/201346/634453?player_id=131301

Falling just short on his next carry 3.5 minutes later in the game:

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/201346/634653?player_id=131301

Originally posted by dbill
Most (Good) RBs in RL have like 4.4-4.5 speed. Very few have 4.3 speed and they normally not that great. And many and most get run down from behind more often than they make it the 60-70-80 yards. In RL runs that long are a result of great downfield blocking by teammate's more than not.

Exhibit A-Chris Johnson

Jamal Charles is about the only pure speed back who has been any good in a while now. More are shifty or decent speed with good power now

So back to the why let the O just build 100 speed guys to exploit the D who could never afford to do the same?

Because pure Speed Backs wouldnt Break free as much as skilled Backs do. And dont say defense cant go Speedy. Good LBs can easily have 70-80 speed. In the op the Speed difference should have been obvious on the field, but it wasnt. oh well

Originally posted by peeti


I Do can live with the fact it isnt. But what made the difference? Im just curious here

I understand that the game is built so that speed backs don't get breakaway runs. I really do think that 100 speed is worth about 1 more ypc over the course of the season than 90 speed, which makes the investment is worth it.

The question, I think, is whether or not defenders get a speed boost through a stat that isn't sprinting. If that is the case, and right now I am convinced that it is, then the sprinting stat is disingenuous on the surface. A player that runs a 4.28 40 should outrun most players on the field, regardless of whether or not they play offense or defense.

This is how it looks in real life https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R23cAW8l7Xo. In GLB, the safety would have caught the HB by the 50 yd line.

Originally posted by PaulM
I understand that the game is built so that speed backs don't get breakaway runs. I really do think that 100 speed is worth about 1 more ypc over the course of the season than 90 speed, which makes the investment is worth it.

The question, I think, is whether or not defenders get a speed boost through a stat that isn't sprinting. If that is the case, and right now I am convinced that it is, then the sprinting stat is disingenuous on the surface. A player that runs a 4.28 40 should outrun most players on the field, regardless of whether or not they play offense or defense.

This is how it looks in real life https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R23cAW8l7Xo. In GLB, the safety would have caught the HB by the 50 yd line.

Exactly

Originally posted by PaulM
I understand that the game is built so that speed backs don't get breakaway runs. I really do think that 100 speed is worth about 1 more ypc over the course of the season than 90 speed, which makes the investment is worth it.

The question, I think, is whether or not defenders get a speed boost through a stat that isn't sprinting. If that is the case, and right now I am convinced that it is, then the sprinting stat is disingenuous on the surface. A player that runs a 4.28 40 should outrun most players on the field, regardless of whether or not they play offense or defense.

This is how it looks in real life https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R23cAW8l7Xo. In GLB, the safety would have caught the HB by the 50 yd line.

Heres a 235lb back doing it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzF_8J_dAqo

Have to note Eric Berry was diagnosed with some type of nasty cancer right after the game

That S in the Johnson one played that play about as bad as one can I think lol. But he did run with him for a bit

I was watching PaulM's replay in slow motion by moving the bar myself. That HB is steadily pulling away from the CB the entire time right up until the CB dives for the tackle. That one is entirely about the angle. From about tick 79 -> 134, the HB manages to cover 6 yards futher downfield than the CB. The CB only barely manages to make the diving tackle when about 2 yards behind the HB despite having started his angle run with a 4 yard downfield advantage.

Given that we know a second = 15 ticks in game, Tick 79 to tick 134 is 3.67 seconds. So taking the 40 times to actually mean something, in a straight line race, we'd only expect the 4.28 WR to be able to cover 3.27 yards further downfield over 3.67 seconds. The difference between a 4.73 and a 4.28 40 yard dash is ~.889 Yards/sec.

Given the angle and relative energy differences, it makes sense that the WR is able to do better than acquire 3.27 yards of downfield progress relative to the CB, but it just barely wasn't enough to escape diving tackle range due to the CB having had a 4 yard downfield headstart on the chase.

I think folks are expecting that 4.3 speed is massively faster than 4.7 speed. It's not even 1 Yard/Sec faster. Almost... but not quite.

If anything, I think this thread is a solid argument for the merits of pushing conditioning higher and/or using SAs to further bolster it on these fast built HBs.

Saw this from a WR of mine today. http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/201690/809499?player_id=142980

The WR is 4.94, 30 Quickness, 70 Sprinting, 43 Conditioning
The CB is 5.42, can't see his ratings

He scores mainly because of how well he maintained speed while catching, but he didn't exactly blow the doors off in the open field. He had slightly more energy than the CB when the breakaway started, although he did lose energy quicker.

Looks like about 3 yards of separation right after the catch, then about 5 yards about 100 ticks later. Seems like he should be getting more separation than that over 6-7 seconds.

are people factoring in fatigue in these observations?

Obviously not.