Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Xars
Why players and agents are penalized for spending $$$ in this game continues to baffle me.



Yeah, there aren't enough teams/agents that stick around for chemistry to be WAI. We need to be able to retool in the off-season without this huge penalty.

It was just two or three seasons ago when everybody was clamoring for off-season chemistry to be at 25 instead of 0. Corndog instead upped it to 50, and everybody was ecstatic.

Now we're back on the chemistry is evil thing?

Originally posted by Absolut Zero
It was just two or three seasons ago when everybody was clamoring for off-season chemistry to be at 25 instead of 0. Corndog instead upped it to 50, and everybody was ecstatic.

Now we're back on the chemistry is evil thing?

It always was. Bumping it to 50 reduced the issues, but there are still issues.

Particularly for Vet teams that want to stay at Vet. You're looking at permanent chemistry issues as each season you'll have 10 players turn over. Look at the difference in effectiveness of a WR at 80 chem and 100 chem.

It effects the player and hence the agent that owns him.
It effects the owner of the team that signed him - who did the right thing.
It effects game results in the first half of the season, particularly at Vet.

Here's a very real example of what's wrong with Chemistry:

Agent creates a player for a Rookie team. Team does ok in Rookie and Soph. Some agents/players drops, but this agent keeps his player current with boosts and appropriate SP expenditure. Team gets owned in Seasoned. Team might go on, but lots of players drop or Team folds. Agent suffers from being on a team with chem issues or a mismatch of builds, etc. for the strategy. Watching games is less fun, but the Agent keeps at it. Team gets to Journeyman and while some chem issues get resolved, other players drop and they have to get replaced - or Agent has to find another new team. Another season of sub-par stats and competitiveness ensues. Get to Pro, respeat. Get to Vet, repeat. Agent finally gets his player on a solid Vet team run by a competent Co-ordinator. Now the question of Career Boost comes up. Why spend on Career Boosts when you know that each season another 25% of the roster is going to change out?

What did this Agent ever do wrong? He bought his flex, created and maintained his player appropriately. He's a good customer, a respected player builder and someone who is wanted by team owners. Yet what was his customer experience with GLB2? He suffered from less than ideal/fun seasons all because of how Chemistry is implemented. How was a good, loyal customer rewarded for his 8 seasons of Flex?

Think this isn't real? I have two names for you:

Yukkiko and Randall Cobb.

Yeah, Cobb and Yukiko are the poster children for getting boned by chemistry.

I've got players that we signed to Air Raid during veteran that will end up spending 2/4 veteran seasons at less than 100 chemistry. That sucks for them. Why should Tiny Rogers boost this off season for another season when he'll spend it at inferior chemistry mostly?

I know it will never happen...but would be interesting to consider chem exempt roster moves -- scaling by tier.


Rookie: each team is given 5 contracts to offer that start the player at 100 chem (would probably go to skill positions -- and would likely make rookie much more watchable)

Soph: each team gets 7

Seas: each team get 9

Jour: 11

Pro: 13

Vet: 15



Keep "sign offseason through day 5 to start with 50) - or whatever it is.


So - a team in my division wants to bring in 15 run stopping defensive players with their chem exempt contracts? That is kind of a bummer....but SO WHAT.

And here's the flip side.

Single-agent teams never have a chemistry issue. They never suffer through sub-par performance due to the mechanic. In fact, they take advantage of the mechanic.

Belgarion on the LZ Boys will be the all-time leading WR for GLB when he eventually retires. Will he have had the best build? Not the argument.

He'll have the best all-time stats because he never played a single game where chemistry effected the team in any way. Where there was no turnover of the roster, builds, etc.

His environment is "perfect". How does my 2 S* stay competitive in the Ladder for my tier? Because I have less roster turnover and game-day chemistry effects than other teams. I'm sure I've won quite a number of games over the past 5 seasons due to this.

And what does it do to GLB? Help it? No way. I'm sure that plenty of agents have quit because their players and teams couldn't keep up with the LZ Boys/ other top Ladder one-agent teams in the tier. What teams reset? The ones who are losing. So if Chem causes them to lose because it effects player performance, then what's their choice? Continue to face that one-agent team that will never have a Chem hit? Never have to change out a roster slot to someone with a less than ideal build?

Or quit spending $ on a game that penalizes you for having a 43 players on multiple teams when someone like me has 43 players on one team that results in a permanent advantage?

Originally posted by Galithor
I do like that Hillman's viable. I didn't think it'd work(based on a non S* build we did on Air Raid that just couldn't get targets) It's good that you can make a YAC guy. I'd guess he's mostly said piss-off to CiT and probably some of the route elusiveness/route tech stuff, or at least it's all very modestly invested. That leaves him with lower targets, but when he does get open and targeted, the defense pays for it.

I'd still rather have Tiny Rogers than Hillman. I think BHall should try and talk Tiny Roger's agent into signing with Run Defenders at WR2 next season if he hasn't already. Let Hillman pick on "cover" corners and FS at WR1. Have Rogers run the nice 2WR formation screens at WR2. Other than Tiny Rogers having to suffer under crappy chemistry mechanics, it'd be a fun offense to watch.

I am not even remotely sure why you think this is a good plan.

Your assumptions about targets is so far off it is ridiculous. That was actually the real problem for me last season was that he got entirely too many targets with his lower chemistry and the offense did suffer because of it as he wasn't making the catches routinely and he fumbled a lot of drag tackle attempts. Partially why I added Barry to the fold this season was to try and hide Hillman as a screen guy for that potential. But when he hit 100 chemistry that duo has become amazing and I wouldn't trade it for a Tiny Rogers ever. Not to say I wouldn't add a Tiny Rogers to the fold. But I couldn't fit him in from this point on. The core 4 I have are there until they either want to retire or are legend. I won't rebound chem on offense without being forced to for the next 2 seasons at least.

Originally posted by bhall43
I am not even remotely sure why you think this is a good plan.

Your assumptions about targets is so far off it is ridiculous. That was actually the real problem for me last season was that he got entirely too many targets with his lower chemistry and the offense did suffer because of it as he wasn't making the catches routinely and he fumbled a lot of drag tackle attempts. Partially why I added Barry to the fold this season was to try and hide Hillman as a screen guy for that potential. But when he hit 100 chemistry that duo has become amazing and I wouldn't trade it for a Tiny Rogers ever. Not to say I wouldn't add a Tiny Rogers to the fold. But I couldn't fit him in from this point on. The core 4 I have are there until they either want to retire or are legend. I won't rebound chem on offense without being forced to for the next 2 seasons at least.

My thoughts on passing are ridiculous, and your passing teams have never beaten my passing team

BOOM

Air Raid beating a bunch of run defending players through the air doesn't really add much to the argument. Capua also lit me up through the air.

And yes, your thoughts here are ridiculous.

Originally posted by bhall43
Air Raid beating a bunch of run defending players through the air doesn't really add much to the argument. Capua also lit me up through the air.

And yes, your thoughts here are ridiculous.

Let's see. A power running build WR abusing "coverage" built corners at CB1 and the typically lighter tackling FS from WR1 is ridiculous.

Putting a speed demon at WR2 to abuse typically slower and higher tackling CB/SS on the strong side is also a bad plan. Especially with the ability to abuse screens to that side of the field harder than you can do weak side from the only viable 3WR formation screen.

Just a dreadful plan that doesn't play off conventional defensive setups at all.

Originally posted by Galithor
Let's see. A power running build WR abusing "coverage" built corners at CB1 and the typically lighter tackling FS from WR1 is ridiculous.

Putting a speed demon at WR2 to abuse typically slower and higher tackling CB/SS on the strong side is also a bad plan. Especially with the ability to abuse screens to that side of the field harder than you can do weak side from the only viable 3WR formation screen.

Just a dreadful plan that doesn't play off conventional defensive setups at all.

First of all, you are making a lot of bad assumptions about builds and gameplans here.

Second of all, you don't understand the offense. There is a reason I have it set up like it is.

Originally posted by Galithor
Just a dreadful plan that doesn't play off conventional defensive setups at all.

Yeah but RD is almost all pass now. I wouldn't expect anyone to run a conventional D against them. I'd bounce Hillman and/or Barry all over the Depth Chart so the DC can't possibly plan for one of them.

Originally posted by Xars
Yeah but RD is almost all pass now. I wouldn't expect anyone to run a conventional D against them. I'd bounce Hillman and/or Barry all over the Depth Chart so the DC can't possibly plan for one of them.



That is the beauty behind having 4 superstars and not running screens much.

Originally posted by Xars
Yukkiko and Randall Cobb.



except their careers weren't at all like what you said... I believe they each only played for 2 teams on GLB (Atlantic City and HBurg for Cobb... Zorp and HBurg for Yukiko). HBurg has dealt with some turnover in Vet, but soph-pro we didn't have much at all, as I built 75-80%ish of the players on the team until pro season. Not sure why they are used in that example.

yukiko was on Xav's team before Harry. He's burned 2 seasons to chemistry post rookie.