Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Rob.
No...it's based on the plays in the formation and how they are tagged.

But based on a flat zero tactics across the board, except for zone/blitz at 50 like I mentioned, it would randomly pick a play based off the blue dots if zone or blitz didnt come up in the roll? Say I have a 4-3 Middle Overload short blitz (5 blue dots) and a 4-3 Cover 3 medium zone (1 blue dot) in the 2 WR set... how would it pick then?

Edit:

See this is where I struggle with the tactics in this game... there are no FAQs or decent wiki's to explain the ins and outs of how it works, only a few people who will answer questions. Every time I think I get it figured out, I read something on the forums and it fucks me up again.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
But based on a flat zero tactics across the board, except for zone/blitz at 50 like I mentioned, it would randomly pick a play based off the blue dots if zone or blitz didnt come up in the roll? Say I have a 4-3 Middle Overload short blitz (5 blue dots) and a 4-3 Cover 3 medium zone (1 blue dot) in the 2 WR set... how would it pick then?

Edit:

See this is where I struggle with the tactics in this game... there are no FAQs or decent wiki's to explain the ins and outs of how it works, only a few people who will answer questions. Every time I think I get it figured out, I read something on the forums and it fucks me up again.

Yeah someone needs to make a defensive tactics guide. It can be quite overwhelming.

So with zero across the board and 50 in blitz and 50 in zone and Middle Overload and 4-3 Cover 3 as your plays. In this scenario, the play priority(blue dots) will make no difference. The play priority only comes into play if you have multiple plays with the same tag, like ZEB and Shallow Sam Blitz.

I never go with zero across the board, you can control which plays get called with stuff like short pass, medium pass and inside run. But in this particular scenario both plays would get called at a 50/50 rate. I don't remember which is first in the priority, blitz or zone? I don't generally mix man and zone so haven't tested it a ton. But either way, it's gonna be a 50/50 split because there is only 1 blitz and only 1 zone play.

Edit: I'm pretty sure zone takes priority over blitz. In this scenario it doesn't matter though. After further thought, I can't even guarantee a 50/50 split. Not sure what the sim does when the most important part of tactics is all set at zero. I would assume it picks at random, which would eventually equal a 50/50 split anyway.

Originally posted by Rob.
Yeah someone needs to make a defensive tactics guide. It can be quite overwhelming.

So with zero across the board and 50 in blitz and 50 in zone and Middle Overload and 4-3 Cover 3 as your plays. In this scenario, the play priority(blue dots) will make no difference. The play priority only comes into play if you have multiple plays with the same tag, like ZEB and Shallow Sam Blitz.

I never go with zero across the board, you can control which plays get called with stuff like short pass, medium pass and inside run. But in this particular scenario both plays would get called at a 50/50 rate. I don't remember which is first in the priority, blitz or zone? I don't generally mix man and zone so haven't tested it a ton. But either way, it's gonna be a 50/50 split because there is only 1 blitz and only 1 zone play.

Say if the tactics where set to 50/50 short/medium and 50/50 zone/blitz (think its in that order) with two short plays (one is a blitz), and medium is rolled... then it would be based on blue dots or random if both are set to same setting?

And thanks for answering the questions btw.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
Say if the tactics where set to 50/50 short/medium and 50/50 zone/blitz (think its in that order) with two short plays (one is a blitz), and medium is rolled... then it would be based on blue dots or random if both are set to same setting?

And thanks for answering the questions btw.

Still 50/50

Why should just calling a play be this complicated?

If the play is set at 0 with 50% then maybe it will be called but I'm not positive how that works it might be the other way around which would probably be a zone but it could be a blitz I'm not really sure but I think that's how it works. Now if it is short then it could be medium if it's not long and a 50/50 split or it could be a zone.

I better just stick to the two play thing.

Originally posted by Rob.
Still 50/50

So basically if a result is rolled that you don't have a play for (like medium rolled but only short in your set), it will pick a play out of the set based on preference (blue dots) or random from the set if preference/blue dots are set the same, correct?

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
So basically if a result is rolled that you don't have a play for (like medium rolled but only short in your set), it will pick a play out of the set based on preference (blue dots) or random from the set if preference/blue dots are set the same, correct?

The blue dots only come into play if the plays in the playbook are tagged identically, otherwise it's based on the numbers in your tactics.

Originally posted by Rob.
Yeah someone needs to make a defensive tactics guide. It can be quite overwhelming.


This is extremely annoying to me. Guys talk about how complicated the tactics are. A bunch of people walk in and talk about how easy it is to to put 2 play per package and set it up with like 8 of the best defensive plays. Guy like you walks in and says ya it might be a bit overwhelming.


Mid season a guy like Romo says hey I don't care what play you throw at GL it sucks dick because your builds totally suck. Thought this was that game that was supposed to change that. Guess not.

This game annoys new people both on the fact that the tactics are pretty fucked up for them. It is a puzzle more than anything. Quit telling me all about your stupid 1-2 plays per package that make it "easy". Quit enabling this bullshit.

Telling people they can't stop something because their builds just don't allow it. This was supposed to be the game where that really didn't happen. Builds should very well help things out but to tell me I can't stop one play because my builds suck is fucking stupid. It isn't my builds that are the problem unless I completely went awry from the entire game. The plays show so hard its almost slapping you over the face play after fucking play.

Teams often force my hand and make me run a short run/pass blitz for the 2WR set 50-70+% of the downs and distance. This pretty much takes the short blitz out of consideration for the other five WR sets. I often like a medium run/pass play out of the 2 WR for and long situations, yet I like it for medium and long situations out of the 3WR set.

People act like I'm wanting outrageous requests when I just want the ability to pick logical plays to counter the bad guy's offensive scheme.

I understand the AI and that is why I don't like it. What I don't understand why so many passionately defend it. It could be so much better.

The only good part is everyone is forced to use the same system.

Previous Post: http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/forum/thread/5217064?page=2#48894972
I'm also made a few Suggestion threads on this topic.

Originally posted by Xars
I'm bumping this in the hope Corndog sees this with a new season approaching:

I'm not so much as asking for new Defensive Plays, but rather to have some existing plays re-categorized.

Cdog, what I'd like to see is this:

For each Defensive Formation to include the following:

Pass Short - 3+ plays
Pass Medium - 3+ plays
Pass Long - 1+ plays

Pass Short Blitz - 2+ plays
Pass Medium Blitz - 2+ plays
Pass Long Blitz - 1+ plays

Inside Run - 2+ plays
Outside Run - 2+ plays

I'd like all Pass/Run plays to be re-categorized as only Pass plays (with a distance attached to them).

That way all Inside Run and Outside Run plays are in their own category and don't have crossover from the Pass/Run plays.

In essence what this really does is allow the DC to play appropriate Down & Distance which is usually what he wants to do. Sometimes, you want to commit to a direction.

If you remove Pass and Run, the above system becomes this:

Down and Distance
Short (w/Blitz)
Medium (w/Blitz)
Long (w/Blitz)

Direction
Inside (w/Blitz)
Outside (w/Blitz)

Add Blitzes to the above and you have the Tactics Matrix as it actually works. No coding overhaul is needed. Just switch the categories each play is allocated to.

If you can follow this template, you will greatly improve Defensive Play Calling. This will give DCs a role in the game (something you and Bort have said you want). To do that, we need options.

Thank you.



The next step in improving the above is to make Inside/Outside a *subset* of distance (Pass) Short/Med/Long. The descriptions seem to show this, but it doesn't clearly work this way consistently.

The Tactics Matrix works Left to Right. First it checks Distance (Pass Short/ Med/ Long) and then it check Direction (Inside/Outside) then it checks for Zone and finally it checks for a Blitz.

OSIRIS is correct in that mis-tagging of plays is what is causing a huge issue for Defense.

Example: ZEB is a great Pass Blitz, but it's coded as a Pass Short Blitz. If you want to ZEB in 3rd and Long against a teams 3WR set, then you need a Tactics allocation of Pass Short 100 and Blitz 100. But if the team runs outside in 3rd and Long from 2WR set, then you want your Tactics allocation to be 100 Outside Run or 100 Pass Medium/Long.

The issue is that there is no way to consistently get both.

What's Needed: OSIRIS is also correct in that some Inside Run Blitzes suck at stuffing the run and instead are great Pass Blitzes. This is why there needs to be a greater mix of Defensive plays across all formations.

My blog post clearly shows the mix problem: https://xarsglb2.wordpress.com/glb2-play-types-defense/

I believe Cdog is working on both adding new D Plays, but also in re-categorizing current plays. The step made this past off-season where Bort made the Inside/Outside check first is an indication of them moving towards the *subset* suggestion I made.

Originally posted by bhall43
This is extremely annoying to me. Guys talk about how complicated the tactics are. A bunch of people walk in and talk about how easy it is to to put 2 play per package and set it up with like 8 of the best defensive plays. Guy like you walks in and says ya it might be a bit overwhelming.


Mid season a guy like Romo says hey I don't care what play you throw at GL it sucks dick because your builds totally suck. Thought this was that game that was supposed to change that. Guess not.

Forum based written posts can easily miss context that verbal, direct communication provides.

The Tactics matrix is currently complicated because of the mistagging in the Playbook. The problem is the Playbook much more than the Tactics matirx.

So if you try to force a flawed Playbook into the Tactics Matrix, you get garbage results.

The Tactics Matrix works fine. It has Distance control based on Downs; direction control; and zone and blitz options.

The real problem is the Playbook. The problem shows up in the Tactics matrix.

So why do some people say the Tactics Matrix is easy? Because they have a Philosophy about how to inject a Playbook into the Tactics Matrix and get adequate results.

The Defensive Playbook has several issues:

1. Not enough diversity of Play tagging across Formations
2. Plays tagged to perform well at one thing, when they actually work better for something else.
3. Not having any D plays that can stop certain O plays

The frustations people have stem from the above. People are complaining about multiple specific issues. And they are right.

It isnt complicated to understand. It is complicated to setup though.

On top of Xar's suggestions, I would still like to see a good FAQ or Wiki explaining how it works and the ins & outs in detail.