Warrior General Games

Originally posted by TxSteve
You're being awfully dramatic.

We're simply discussing "do hurries actually do anything" -- incredibly limited data indicates 'no'.

No one has said that hurries should result in 50% absolutely uncatchable balls.

Beyond that - it looks like in Season 5 Cleveland was hurried 6.8 times per game (including scrims). Looking at only games that count - 5.7 hurries per game.

Cleveland was hurried in the double digits 9 times out of 43 games last season.

We're absolutely talking about whether hurries should do more or not. If the outcome of the discussion is "they should do more", then that's a desire for a nerf to passing offenses. Bottom. Line.

Originally posted by Galithor
I get that the thinking is hurries should impact plays more, but I'm saying that the incidental impact of hurries is outweighing it's direct impact. Forcing throws to TEs before they reach SS depth on plays where they're the first or second read is providing an overwhelmingly positive situational advantage to outweigh any negative caused to the throw quality by the hurry.

I think a breakdown of how hurries look when caused by no blitz, vs blitz hurries would be enlightening. Getting exta defenders in the secondary is far more important to shutting down a pass attack than many folks still care to admit.

I can go back through Air Raid's history and point out teams that covered heavily with 7-8 defenders providing us more trouble on offense than teams that blitzed at probably a 2 to 1 ratio or greater. There's some teams that can get really solid pressure with just their front four even against my all pass blocking offensive line. They probably get murdered by Hawaii and Storm Taurus because of it, but they're built to give us problems for sure.

without the ability to knock qbs down then hurries has to be held on a higher scale. I play hockey and real life and when i played football i played safety, i can tell you in hockey whether its a direct impact or even a passive impact of a hurried pass it effects EVERYTHING. A hurried pass is based off anticipation of getting hit so its a moment of borken concentration meaning you release the ball later than intended which lowers the accuracy. The effect of this game is not high enough. Take Alex Smith for example for the chiefs when under pessure his Pass accuracy ia 17 points lower than when he has no pressure. This is an NFL pro (not the best not the worst) bt 17 percentage points is a big deal

Originally posted by vipermaw82
without the ability to knock qbs down then hurries has to be held on a higher scale. I play hockey and real life and when i played football i played safety, i can tell you in hockey whether its a direct impact or even a passive impact of a hurried pass it effects EVERYTHING. A hurried pass is based off anticipation of getting hit so its a moment of borken concentration meaning you release the ball later than intended which lowers the accuracy. The effect of this game is not high enough. Take Alex Smith for example for the chiefs when under pessure his Pass accuracy ia 17 points lower than when he has no pressure. This is an NFL pro (not the best not the worst) bt 17 percentage points is a big deal


That's fine. I've got two games against The Salty Runback from last season where they held my superstar QB to 49% completions with 19 and 9 hurries. So now I'm throwing for 32% according to your desires in competitive games against a team that brings pressure.

What do I get in return to keep me from wanting to just dissolve my team because passing has now been made wholely ineffective?

Originally posted by Galithor
That's fine. I've got two games against The Salty Runback from last season where they held my superstar QB to 49% completions with 19 and 9 hurries. So now I'm throwing for 32% according to your desires in competitive games against a team that brings pressure.

What do I get in return to keep me from wanting to just dissolve my team because passing has now been made wholely ineffective?

why do you keep putting words in people's mouths? The only person to try to volunteer a "potential hurry penalty" is you!


who is saying we want to reduce your completion % from 49 to 32??? only you!


why is everything about what YOU CAN GET. Do you have entitlement issues in real life too?


Wait -- are you going back through the QB roll out threads and just stealing Xavori's material? I think you might be.

Maybe you'll agree with this one: If according to the code hurries really don't mean anything...let's just get rid of hurries as a stat and as a thing that shows up in the play by play. That would be fine with me - no reason to report something that doesn't matter.

Originally posted by TxSteve
why do you keep putting words in people's mouths? The only person to try to volunteer a "potential hurry penalty" is you!


who is saying we want to reduce your completion % from 49 to 32??? only you!


why is everything about what YOU CAN GET. Do you have entitlement issues in real life too?


Wait -- are you going back through the QB roll out threads and just stealing Xavori's material? I think you might be.

Maybe you'll agree with this one: If according to the code hurries really don't mean anything...let's just get rid of hurries as a stat and as a thing that shows up in the play by play. That would be fine with me - no reason to report something that doesn't matter.

They record sticks... sticks dont matter, and they also cant add solo and assisted tackles together to get total tackles instead we get tackles and assisted tackles as two different things...

Also looking ath the percentage wrong. I'm saying when your are under duress the completion percentage should at least average down 10% the stat i gave you is just a real life stat and real life experience. If you're under pressure of any type whether its football or life your effectiveness is down.

wow... that was deep

Originally posted by Galithor
That's fine. I've got two games against The Salty Runback from last season where they held my superstar QB to 49% completions with 19 and 9 hurries. So now I'm throwing for 32% according to your desires in competitive games against a team that brings pressure.

What do I get in return to keep me from wanting to just dissolve my team because passing has now been made wholely ineffective?

Hey Galithor, I totally understand what you are trying to say, but you also have to keep your calm and not try to be too extreme. I wouldnt want your QB to complete 32% of the passes in an entire game. Not even sure where you got that number from, actually. We are talking about hurries, not the entire passing game. I am also sure you can get that number up with good catching WRs and better builds. Steve's stat seem to be indicating that hurries have little to no effect on pass accuracy/quality, and if it's the case, it definitely needs to be changed. There really needs to be give-and-take process to balance things and make it look more realistic. You can't just oppose to what I am suggesting here just because passing currently isn't as strong as it used to be.

That's fine txsteve. Lets remove the Stat.

this is one more case of "testers convincing bort to not reveal game mechanics were wrong".

Increasing hurries in any form, would make passing in rookie all but impossible. So then you're left with VERY few teams that pass, and a meta that is almost entirely run. Which would get very boring very quick.

It's a game, the end result is about having fun and being fair, not having stats that mimic the real game.

The only thing that matters is the overall effectiveness of the passing game vs the overall effectiveness of the running game, which seems to be about 60/40 right now, run/pass. So if anything passing needs a small bump IMO, not to make it even harder.

Originally posted by TxSteve
why do you keep putting words in people's mouths? The only person to try to volunteer a "potential hurry penalty" is you!


Oh, and, from the OP:

Originally posted by Sean19950
Hurries should be way more penalizing than it currently is.

This is a thread discussing the merits of whether hurries should be more impactful or not.

Originally posted by Aeir
It's a game, the end result is about having fun and being fair, not having stats that mimic the real game.


Since you are emphasizing on balance (between passing/running), I had to quote this. Yeah 'it's a game, which is about having fun and being fair', but it is also about playing a game that's logical and somewhat similar to the real game. It's important that we balance those two aspects. It's not JUST about one or the other, and that's why I am making this suggestion. Speaking of 'being fair,' if hurries don't affect anything other than literally just forcing QB quick throws, it's not fair for teams with really well built linemen or agents with good linemen that can force hurries passes.

Originally posted by Aeir
Increasing hurries in any form, would make passing in rookie all but impossible. So then you're left with VERY few teams that pass, and a meta that is almost entirely run. Which would get very boring very quick.

It's a game, the end result is about having fun and being fair, not having stats that mimic the real game.

The only thing that matters is the overall effectiveness of the passing game vs the overall effectiveness of the running game, which seems to be about 60/40 right now, run/pass. So if anything passing needs a small bump IMO, not to make it even harder.

unless you have done the math of passing versus running teams and their playcall selection this is a very ignorant statement. Steve and i play in a league where we are really the only 2 teams that are run dominant. My rookie league is pass happy teams as well. Anything after rookie ball passing works very well. running doesnt truly take its form until about halfway through sophomore or a little later. When we play ladder teams the passing teams FAR outweigh the running teams as well and I'm fairly sure Steve will back this theory from what we've seen as the two highest teams in Journeyman we get to play pro and Veteran teams every ladder.

Originally posted by vipermaw82
unless you have done the math of passing versus running teams and their playcall selection this is a very ignorant statement. Steve and i play in a league where we are really the only 2 teams that are run dominant. My rookie league is pass happy teams as well. Anything after rookie ball passing works very well. running doesnt truly take its form until about halfway through sophomore or a little later. When we play ladder teams the passing teams FAR outweigh the running teams as well and I'm fairly sure Steve will back this theory from what we've seen as the two highest teams in Journeyman we get to play pro and Veteran teams every ladder.

Steve runs a 100% rushing attack with Minnesota, and his team dominates his tier by a wide margin. Your own team is a majority rushing offense itself.

You probably should look elsewhere than ladder rankings for the evidence you need to prove that passing is basically on par with rushing.

Yes I can run something... give me a bit and I will run a querey on WHOLE of season 5 comp pct of hurry vs non hurry. I do know if it was knocked loose or pass deflection or drop, what I don't know is incomplete due to nearby defense vs incomplete.

Well... crap I guess I am logging all the situations Ill update shortly.

Originally posted by Stobie
Yes I can run something... give me a bit and I will run a querey on WHOLE of season 5 comp pct of hurry vs non hurry. I do know if it was knocked loose or pass deflection or drop, what I don't know is incomplete due to nearby defense vs incomplete.

How does it analyze the play? Is it based on the play description?