Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Stixx
Not trying to sound like a jerk here, Laggo, so don't take this the wrong way. You have come in here with a lot of talk about how SURE you are that spin works and is this amazing SA. The problem with that is you have yet to prove the points you are trying to make. I have not seen any replays from you of one dot that has the skills to spin on a regular basis and does so with a lot of success.

I could show you 10x the replays of spin firing at a bad time where it does nothing for the HB.


The game is only 5 seasons old, nobody has a finished build yet - what exactly do you want to see?

No, I can't show you a finished build with 3* Spin and high footwork, carry awareness, etc. because I'm not building one. What I could do though is point out that a lot of you who are saying "Spin fucking sucks it never works" have spin fire a whole lot when you are playing, and often get you bonus yards or even touchdowns directly because of it. What more do you want from the SA? I'm not sure what your criteria is for spin being "worth it", as that varies from person to person, but the idea that Spin "doesn't work" or "does nothing" is bullshit, and all you have to do is look at your own replays to verify that information.

I looked at one game, and the most recent one for Badhands to find multiple examples of successful spin plays (including a free TD from it) right after he said "it hasn't been a major factor". Do you need me to do that for you too?

As for the bug about fumbles being knocked loose, we've known about that for weeks/months and there have been multiple bug report threads about it:
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/forum/thread/5179485
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/forum/thread/5177671
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/forum/thread/5177139
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/forum/thread/5167831

I could go on, but that has nothing to do with spin specifically so I don't know why it's even worth mentioning here.

Originally posted by Stixx
I decided to go ahead and do some of the work for you, Laggo. These replays come from a game in which Hub City scored 147 points against a CPU team so I would expect there are a lot of examples of spin firing and being successful against a CPU team.

You do realize that Spin is activated by your own abilities right? What does the quality of the opponent have to do with it? Come on dude, use your brain.... you are still going to most likely get tackled if you spin into a defender regardless if he is a CPU or not.

As for your post itself, rofl I am dying. No, you are not going to get bonus yards out of spin every time. I don't understand why you think cherrypicking Spin anecdotes is a good argument. I could do the same thing and cherrypick Spin anecdotes that show positive gains and/or touchdowns (I saw tons just looking at 20-30 plays of Badhands).

You can literally cherry pick like that for any SA in the game. Spin Cycle is probably the most widely used SA in the game by position and I could easily go "Herp derp look at these 20 times where Spin Cycle fired and nothing good happened! Obviously shit SA"

If Spin actually cleared you of the defensive backline every time it fired it would be grossly overpowered. Yes, you can spin out of bounds but like I said I think that is partially a settings issue when you run outside and partially a sim issue.

Again dude, whether or not you think Spin is more valuable than Juke, or Surge, or whatever is up to you. They work differently and do different things. All I'm saying the idea that:

Originally posted by Stixx
the only time I ever see it fire is right next to out of bounds line (where he proceeds to spin out of bounds) or before he even gets to the line of scrimmage. Broken SA imo

Originally posted by Stixx
the HB may spin one guy out of his shoes, but he loses -10 to -12 balance (If you have it at silver or gold) which is pretty much a sure tackle by the 2nd guy.

is all bullshit conjecture with no basis at all, lol. I mean really, tell me more about how -10 balance = an automatic tackle... My spin cycle DE would like to hear a lot about that.

Can we get an IP check - I have a suspicion Laggo = Jampy.

Love it when people talk as if they KNOW for a fact all about this game and how it works and what is working and what is not working.


Originally posted by Laggo
all bullshit conjecture with no basis at all, lol.


Finally - we agree on something! That pretty much sums up all of your posts!

What are you talking about?

Do you want to point out the conjecture I am inventing? All of the examples with made up numbers I used I identified as thereotical situations but that doesn't change the points I was trying to make through those hypotheticals.

What am I saying that you disagree with exactly?

That fumble -> knocked loose is a bug that we have known about forever that is not spin specific?
That percentage increases to low probability events do not have a large effect?
That you can fumble when you spin?
That spin is not 100% useless and does sometimes result in positive plays/situations?

Want to clarify? Or maybe you are too busy with ad hominem attacks to care?

Originally posted by Galithor
So the general consensus here seems to be that Juke>Spin as far as active SAs for elusive builds go?

For sure. If you want a SA that fires often and usually puts your HB in a better position to avoid a tackle then take Juke.

Originally posted by Laggo
You do realize that Spin is activated by your own abilities right? What does the quality of the opponent have to do with it? Come on dude, use your brain.... you are still going to most likely get tackled if you spin into a defender regardless if he is a CPU or not.

As for your post itself, rofl I am dying. No, you are not going to get bonus yards out of spin every time. I don't understand why you think cherrypicking Spin anecdotes is a good argument. I could do the same thing and cherrypick Spin anecdotes that show positive gains and/or touchdowns (I saw tons just looking at 20-30 plays of Badhands).

You can literally cherry pick like that for any SA in the game. Spin Cycle is probably the most widely used SA in the game by position and I could easily go "Herp derp look at these 20 times where Spin Cycle fired and nothing good happened! Obviously shit SA"

If Spin actually cleared you of the defensive backline every time it fired it would be grossly overpowered. Yes, you can spin out of bounds but like I said I think that is partially a settings issue when you run outside and partially a sim issue.

Again dude, whether or not you think Spin is more valuable than Juke, or Surge, or whatever is up to you. They work differently and do different things. All I'm saying the idea that:



I did not cherry pick any of those spins

I just linked you EVERY single spin that fired in that game and almost every play that fired against Rancho. Unless their HBs carry awareness is terrible then I don't see how you could possibly argue that those bad spins are due to the players build

There is really no point in going back and forth with you anymore. If you really believe that Spin is a better SA than Juke, Surge, or really, anything, then I really feel bad for any team you associate yourself with when it comes to HB builds.

PS. Before you act like you know everything please actually research the topic first. I never claimed that spin fires more when you play a CPU team (Another really stupid assumption you have made). I used that game because they scored a lot of points so I expected it to have fired a lot and it did.

Originally posted by Stixx

I did not cherry pick any of those spins

I just linked you EVERY single spin that fired in that game.

That's what I meant by cherrypicking. There are lots of anecdotes of spin firing in GLB, whether or not they are mostly positive or negative (and how that relates to builds) is an unknown.

Originally posted by Stixx

There is really no point in going back and forth with you anymore. If you really believe that Spin is a better SA than Juke, Surge, or really, anything, then I really feel bad for any team you associate yourself with when it comes to HB builds.

I never said that dude. I said I think Spin has more potential than you guys give it credit for, considering the defensive equivalent (Spin Cycle) is pretty much considered the best defensive SA in the game. They work nearly identically, the backfield is just a little more clogged.

If you think you are getting more effectiveness out of Surge and Juke before you hit that point then

�\_(ツ�)�_/�

Nobody knows what Veteran really will look like at this point (which is where the real action will be in this game, just like it is in GLB1) so I don't know if you can dismiss SA's as good or bad based on what happens in earlier tiers with builds that aren't really focused on using said SA effectively. I don't think that's an outrageous viewpoint.

Originally posted by TxSteve
Can we get an IP check - I have a suspicion Laggo = Jampy.

Love it when people talk as if they KNOW for a fact all about this game and how it works and what is working and what is not working.


Agreed.

I hear if an ad hominem argument doesn't work once, it'll definitely work the second time.

Originally posted by Laggo
I hear if an ad hominem argument doesn't work once, it'll definitely work the second time.

If spin works one out of 45 times in Vet as opposed to 1 out of 50 times in Pro then more power to you. I will stick with SAs that can actually help my player throughout his career.

�\_(ツ�)�_/�

Though this thread against my better judgement makes me want to go ahead with the Head Fake / Spin Receiving Fullback Superstar, rofl. So there's that.

I have to admit, that I didnt read Laggo's post from page 3. But I understand the statements from page 2 regaring the fumbling issue, or better that the grip penalty leads to no big increase in fumbles. But I dont think you can compare that to the drop back grip discussion (I read Laggo's argumentation there as well, which changed my point of view). It is not like: Do I want to boost my not-fumbling-ability, or do I want to improve passing? It is: How do I want to improve my running ability? And you have several options.

Lets say I want to bring Mr. Reliable to gold and first step to silver. So, I am left with one gold SA. Now I have to pick juke or spin. And thats were the question from Tx comes into play: Is the grip penalty working or not? That would be the tiebreaker for me when choosing. Juke = good movement, fires often; Spin = great movement, fires less often, (grip penalty???)

Oh and thanks for that:
Originally posted by TxSteve
My question is simply: is the carry grip penalty working...or is it not being applied.

Originally posted by Laggo
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/88668/1616504?player_id=25563
It actually took me 5 minutes to find this.

I was looking for a play like that, couldnt find one.

For my Return Man, I have seen a Kickoff Return TD happen as the result of a Spin, as well as a Fumble happen during a spin. Just 1 point in it.

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/84309/611760

I appologize if this is a private scrim

Me too.

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/88162/1542612?player_id=87310

Only spin didn't fire. But he does have one point in it and I've spent all of his SP on elusive running and footwork.