Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Corndog
No, but I feel "THE PLAY ART ISN'T COMPLETELY RIGHT" isn't the reason it is horribly broken.

We are suggesting that the play actually function like it was drew up and it may tone it down as a pass blitz.

Originally posted by Corndog
No, but I feel "THE PLAY ART ISN'T COMPLETELY RIGHT" isn't the reason it is horribly broken.

I don't give a damn what the play art is.

You could call this play the "Super happy sunshine play" and have the play art look like a smiley face BUT if it produces the same result as Middle Overload I'm going to call it overpowered.

Originally posted by Parab00n
We are suggesting that the play actually function like it was drew up and it may tone it down as a pass blitz.

And I'm not disputing that.

Making the blitzers play a deep zone would also decrease the amount of sacks it gets.

As I've stated though, I'd rather fix why it is overpowered rather than just changing it to be less effective.

Originally posted by Corndog
And I'm not disputing that.

Making the blitzers play a deep zone would also decrease the amount of sacks it gets.

As I've stated though, I'd rather fix why it is overpowered rather than just changing it to be less effective.

Well, the easiest was would be to increase the QBs ability to hold back blockers and possibly increase the base pass blocking skill of HBs & FBs...however you then neutralize a lot of other blitzes as well.

Back after season 1 it seemed (maybe I'm wrong) that you tweaked dogs all go to slow down the pass rush slightly. What did you do?


As for middle overload vs outside runs - it is my opinion that whatever buff 'blitz awareness' got a few seasons back (if I recall - a halo in which it was impossible to fail a blitz awareness check?) might be a factor there -- make blitz awareness mean something and suddenly outside runs and/or off tackle runs might be able to get past the blitzing lbs

this is (in my opinion) a little like the whole GL QB roll out debate. The trouble is that crappy teams get killed by it.

against equal competition - my running team does great against middle overload
against better competition - they are easily able to tear me apart if I use middle overload because I don't get to the QB in time (i tried it against daddy in a scrim earlier today)

the issue is mostly against crappy teams who's builds aren't focused.


as I said up there though - what is the problem? Just like DAG in late season 2 - the blitzers just get to the crappy QB too fast - and the blitzers seem to make their blitz awareness checks every time even though I doubt many of them are even above 40.

Originally posted by Corndog
And I'm not disputing that.

Making the blitzers play a deep zone would also decrease the amount of sacks it gets.

As I've stated though, I'd rather fix why it is overpowered rather than just changing it to be less effective.

It's effective because it throws 9 guys into the blocking awareness rolls of the offense in 2WR or 2TE sets even though not all of them might be rushing. It's easily the play I see the most unblocked guys coming up the middle. Even in 3 and 4 WR sets, you still have 8 guys in the box.

On those extremely rare occasions where it gets blocked, it gets horribad fast for the defense. Not that that happens all that often.

The other thing that kills it is that the FS who is supposed to be covering WR3 is lined up inside the box rather than on his man. That's why I think the play should get reclassified as an inside run rather than pass/run defense.

Based on all that, I think the first change should be to pass blocking overall. Pre-snap, every o-lineman needs to pick up the unblocked guy who's most likely going to be rushing closest to the middle of the line without needing to make a roll. Basically, the pre-snap reads that the center would call out (hence no roll). If the guy who was initially assigned doesn't rush the passer, then have them make a roll aimed again at picking up the guy who is first closest to them, and second is most inside.

After that, I'd go with Parab00n and buff the ability of the QB to hold backs in to block, although I wouldn't buff their blocking skills since I'm really, really not fond of having the same skill work differently based on position. If you want good run blocking HB/FB, you should have to commit your SP's to make it happen.

Last, QB's need to make a hot-read, again pre-snap although this one should need a roll, so they can know if they don't have enough blockers. In that case, they take a two step drop and just fire the ball at whatever WR/TE is their hot (usually a guy running a route to the middle, but some teams use WR screens for hot reads as well).

Originally posted by Corndog
So your entire problem is the play art.

I can pretty easily fix that.

You could but that wouldn't fix that the play is calls middle overload. I mean I'm sure we could create 10 plays that are the only useable plays in the game but do we want that? No.

It's no secret why the play is good. I guess I just don't understand why you think it's bad to send the lbs to the middle? It's called middle overload. I can understand the not wanting to fix whatever it is but saying it takes people out of the play is completely lol to me. That's the entire point.

Originally posted by Corndog
And I'm not disputing that.

Making the blitzers play a deep zone would also decrease the amount of sacks it gets.

As I've stated though, I'd rather fix why it is overpowered rather than just changing it to be less effective.

Why would you put the only guys blitzing in a zone? Just remove the play of we can't make the play work right. I don't understand the Hang up?

Originally posted by Parab00n
Well, the easiest was would be to increase the QBs ability to hold back blockers and possibly increase the base pass blocking skill of HBs & FBs...however you then neutralize a lot of other blitzes as well.

Huh? Why would we increase the pass bases to guys who don't want to be pass blockers? That's awful.

We can throw the hey top team vs shitty team argument in there sure but when I literally go hey I'm playing a league opponent today it's gonna be all middle overload and my team sucks at this because they aren't fast or good at blitzing that is bad.

What I'm leaning towards is adding a "rattled" counter to QBs, the more they get hurried and sacked the more rattled they become, and the more rattled they are the more likely they are to just hold in blockers regardless of blitz reads.

Makes sense, and seems like it adds a new dynamic to the game.

Originally posted by Corndog
What I'm leaning towards is adding a "rattled" counter to QBs, the more they get hurried and sacked the more rattled they become, and the more rattled they are the more likely they are to just hold in blockers regardless of blitz reads.

Makes sense, and seems like it adds a new dynamic to the game.

I like it - especially since it gives us a moderate degree of "auto-adjust", when your gameplan isn't working, SOMETHING can be done to right the ship if you're just slightly off.

Plus, it gives TEs/FBs a reason to really invest in pass blocking. Maybe a pass blocking awareness roll by them, pre-snap, to make it more likely that they protect a rattled QB?

That doesn't help this play at all. If I start holding guys in for this play it just makes it worse. I don't want to hold guys in for this play. I want the QB to recognize that WR3 is wide open. But more importantly I want this play to be fixed to the point that it isn't running incorrectly. What else do we really have to say about the play? It ISNT A MIDDLE OVERLOAD. This has been the most retarded discussion I have had since I have been associated with GLB and at this point it is annoying to continue to hear I want to know why this play is OP? ITS PRETTY OBVIOUS.

In fact this makes everything worse. As a person who has seen the upper level passing and the now passing they dont need extra blockers right now and they most certainly dont need to get rid of the FB/HB/TE within their progressions because of blitz's. That suggestion sucks on all levels for DC's.