Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Rom_Fox
Perhaps I am too sensitive? Didn't seem lame to me since it tries to simulate the chance for injury and not having kaepernick 2 in case one gets hurt.

Regardless we need to play the sim we have since I think the message is "working as intended"

That doesn't simulate not having Kaepernick 2 in the slightest bit and you know that for a fact.

But even if it did. People pay for these players. The idea should never be lets make this player less ideal to make than any other player. If a guy builds an all out rushing build at QB he obviously isn't gonna be able to pass, must we further restrain him by making new rules for his fatigue and morale even though hes being tackled by the same players? Even though his build may be entirely just as good as the HB's on the team?

Originally posted by Galithor
There are skills, toughness, heart, conditioning, intimidation, and many SAs more than capable of dealing with or creating the same results of your proposed change. That's why it's not worth doing. It's a "fix your build" thing.

If a team's not happy with QBs handling tackles well, they can absolutely build to make such tackles more punishing.

Ya, but we're looking for ways to reduce QB Rollout's popularity/effectiveness that don't also include nerfing the hell out of the entire rest of the running game.

Limiting when you can run QB Rollout to short yardage only is utterly abusable, and I know for me at least, would actually lead to preferred situations to run it in since it'd never get called on 1st against a fresh defense again.

QB specific penalties, on the other hand, get right at the problem, and they mirror reality to some extent. As bhall pointed out, one of the reasons the 49'ers don't run Colin all the time is there is no backup who can do the same. And even if there was, odds are, he wouldn't finish the season either. Well, why not see what happens if you increase the 'punishment' QB's take.

I'm a bit concerned because I really like QB Slam, QB Dive, and QB Sneak, but I'd give those up a lot more readily that losing HB Dive, Smash, Sweep, Pitch, Offtackle, etc. which is kinda where I'm at now.

Originally posted by Xavori
Ya, but we're looking for ways to reduce QB Rollout's popularity/effectiveness that don't also include nerfing the hell out of the entire rest of the running game.

Limiting when you can run QB Rollout to short yardage only is utterly abusable, and I know for me at least, would actually lead to preferred situations to run it in since it'd never get called on 1st against a fresh defense again.

QB specific penalties, on the other hand, get right at the problem, and they mirror reality to some extent. As bhall pointed out, one of the reasons the 49'ers don't run Colin all the time is there is no backup who can do the same. And even if there was, odds are, he wouldn't finish the season either. Well, why not see what happens if you increase the 'punishment' QB's take.

I'm a bit concerned because I really like QB Slam, QB Dive, and QB Sneak, but I'd give those up a lot more readily that losing HB Dive, Smash, Sweep, Pitch, Offtackle, etc. which is kinda where I'm at now.

Eh, if we limited it to only working on 3rd and 4th and 1 yard or less, you're telling me you'd still use QB rollout, risking the loss of downs, to gamble for a touchdown when you only need 1 yard for a first down?

Originally posted by Galithor
Eh, if we limited it to only working on 3rd and 4th and 1 yard or less, you're telling me you'd still use QB rollout, risking the loss of downs, to gamble for a touchdown when you only need 1 yard for a first down?

Nobody has once suggested limiting it that much. But I prolly still would simply because of how hard it is to try and sustain a drive 3-4 yards per play without something going wrong that kills it.

Originally posted by Galithor
Eh, if we limited it to only working on 3rd and 4th and 1 yard or less, you're telling me you'd still use QB rollout, risking the loss of downs, to gamble for a touchdown when you only need 1 yard for a first down?

As a rush first team whose only big plays come from said Rollout? Ya. Absolutely.

Originally posted by bhall43
That doesn't simulate not having Kaepernick 2 in the slightest bit and you know that for a fact.

But even if it did. People pay for these players. The idea should never be lets make this player less ideal to make than any other player.

Wow. It's almost like Yorick is an entire team of players that are now facing exactly that...

Originally posted by Xavori
Wow. It's almost like Yorick is an entire team of players that are now facing exactly that...



Not really any more than any other rushing team. They didn't nerf exclusively your team and they didn't nerf exclusively RQB's.

Originally posted by Corndog
Well, the second idea is kind of silly.

Just straight up making a player do something useless to take themselves out of the play doesn't make any sense.

Not really, could stop a player from chasing the QB down.

I actually like every suggestion in this.

Originally posted by o The Boss x
Not really, could stop a player from chasing the QB down.

I actually like every suggestion in this.

Now this guy is a stud!

Can we please focus on my OP rather than any other stuff that's already been discussed in "changes"?

I really want to hear what would be why bad about any of the 3? What does xav and stuff think about the QB rollout nerf I suggested?

Since you asked...

Originally posted by peeti
FIRST: Adjust/revert to some degree all changes made to blocking and defenders.

I'm in favor of reverting all the blocking and OOP changes.

I'm in favor of removing psychic abilties from the defense.

I'm opposed to reverting the new AI that has them running down the line instead of into blocking.

I'm also okay with some reduction in open field blocking, but I think it's a bit much at the moment given that CB's are sliding off blocks versus run blocking specialists with little difficulty. (and I don't care if Corndog thinks that obervation is relevant since his opinion on current sim reality is not as important as actual sim reality)

Originally posted by
SECOND: Let the HB (or FB) make a weakside or LOS block rather than a lead block on QB Rollout!

That's just stupid.

The entire reason QB Rollout is the only outside run used by QB's is because it's the only one that doesn't have stupid blocking assignments.

QB's are already heavily dependent on their blocking versus HB's because they have massively lower skill caps on running skills. Anything that interferes with blocking on QB runs is the functional equivalent of taking away those runs but leaving a honey trap for new players who haven't learned yet which plays in the playbook are guaranteed losses yet.

I feel bad for newbies who think they can run HB sweeps as rookies in the coming seasons...

Originally posted by
THIRD: Switch the blitzing LBs on MO from the OLBs to the ILBs!

We already have that play. We have several variations of it.

Middle Overload isn't overpowered FOR EXACTLY THE SAME REASONS QB ROLLOUT WASN'T OVERPOWERED.

I can think of lots of plays that wreck MO spamming teams. All my players are on teams you wouldn't want to spam MO against.

If you want to beat MO, you need a combination of a decent (and honestly pretty obvious) build at QB and playcalling that doesn't involve the QB waiting a week for a WR to get open. There are even a whole slew of plays that blatantly can take advantage of the coverage quirks involved in MO.

You also used to be able to call outside HB runs against it for good effect, but those don't work anymore until you get to seasoned.

Originally posted by peeti
Now this guy is a stud!

Can we please focus on my OP rather than any other stuff that's already been discussed in "changes"?

I really want to hear what would be why bad about any of the 3? What does xav and stuff think about the QB rollout nerf I suggested?

Ok then,

I like number 3 100%.

#2 was actually what I was thinking should have been done in the first place. The original problems that arose from defending that play came from the large amount of lead blockers, and from trailing defenders getting stuck in the scrum blocking. They could have probably just lowered the amount of lead blockers and been fine. Instead the scrum issue got fixed, which leads me to #1.

#1. I'm fine with the new changes either way. Probably because it doesn't hurt my team (except for the small hit to pass blocking and blocking on returns) and makes my defense .... almost .... ok, sometimes .... alright FINE! once every four drives my defense is decent

Originally posted by bhall43
That doesn't simulate not having Kaepernick 2 in the slightest bit and you know that for a fact.

But even if it did. People pay for these players. The idea should never be lets make this player less ideal to make than any other player. If a guy builds an all out rushing build at QB he obviously isn't gonna be able to pass, must we further restrain him by making new rules for his fatigue and morale even though hes being tackled by the same players? Even though his build may be entirely just as good as the HB's on the team?


I agree with this. I don't want to see Running nerfed into oblivion. That means all kinds of running. If that happens every team will become a pass first team, and then I'd have to make a run only team.

Just like if zone defense becomes godly, I'd have to abandon zone defenses and run only man defenses. *shudder*

Originally posted by Xavori

As bhall pointed out, one of the reasons the 49'ers don't run Colin all the time is there is no backup who can do the same. And even if there was, odds are, he wouldn't finish the season either.




Josh Johnson is arguably a much better runner than Colin Kap. Most underrated backup in the league imo. Just never given an opportunity to succeed with a legitimate team (like many NFL players).

Originally posted by Rambo

Josh Johnson is arguably a much better runner than Colin Kap. Most underrated backup in the league imo. Just never given an opportunity to succeed with a legitimate team (like many NFL players).
Speaking as a Bucs fan - meh. He did nothing on our team to inspire confidence on my part that more time would have helped. Gaudy college stats or no, his accuracy was *terrible* and his pocket presence barely existed at all.

Here's some middle overload examples against a good running team:
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/58372/1587657
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/58372/1587672
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/58372/1587854
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/58372/1588480
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/58372/1588874

Obviously didn't include any of the inside runs against it, because those got eaten up.

Just for fun:
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/58372/1589255

If you want to watch a team get handled from trying to run various outside/inside runs against a couple different defensive sets I'd watch that game.