Warrior General Games

^Long story short is atm CBs have to do WAY more to just keep up with the WR than WRs have to do to just run their route and catch the ball.

It's unequal, and will only get worse...

Building the PD roll won't do anything if you are not in position to play the ball,
and if you are in position to play the ball, you definitely do not have the Pass defensing skills to make a play happen.

Simple inequality that one doesn't need to show stats or yards to prove... just watch a game.

Originally posted by Jampy2.0
Thats because there are 2 issues happening simultaneously making coverage nearly impossible.


1. The CBs are rarely in position to make a play on the ball... What does this cause? Ppl upping there coverage skills.

2. In the lucky event the CBs are in position to make a play, the Pass defense rolls (int/PD/vert etc.) are way too low to do anything...

If you do not see the problem here I do...

If the CBs can't keep up with them (even against WRs with very very little physical ability), and then when the pass comes in, they can't defend it...

You are looking at some bad, bad shit.



Exactly. Defenders are so crappy in pass defense that defenders will try to boost their coverage skills to get them closer to the receiver and/or the ball. They'll use all their SP on doing this because if you can't locate the ball or the receiver and get close enough then having a 1 million intercepting skill makes no difference because you can't cover well enough to use it. Later they'll have spent so much SP on trying to actually cover the receiver decently that they'll have little to use on pass defending skills to increase those rolls when they rarely do get the chance. Right now CBs and safeties mostly have ~25 deflecting or intercepting or less. This means all that SP is put into cov tech, zone or man awareness, and the physical attributes... yet they still can't easily cover a receiver that has distributed 0 SP like they should. I see plenty of defenders with 50+ cov tech matched with zone or man awareness and over 30 in physical attributes, they still suck even though I doubt there are many receivers even close to having two route running skills at 50+.

Honestly, with everyone's skills so low, if the receivers had just as much SP put into route running as a defender had put into covering, all other stats being equal, the defense should still win because they usually have 1 or 2 extra defenders to use! Right now defenses are already losing and they have MORE points put into coverage than receivers have put into getting separation.

It's going to get worse, and it's already evidenced by some testing telling of passing being overpowered as players progress.

I think an improvement to the karma system would be showing the names of people who have upvoted or downvoted a certain post. Some people just downvote based on name. I may downote one certain person a bunch because he says a lot of stupid crap, but I don't have a bias reading his next post and have no problem upvoting if it makes sense. However, I can see some people just downvoting someone they don't like for some reason and nobody ever calling them out on it because their vote is anonymous. I think the karma system is slightly useful, the only reason I think people are thinking it should be removed is because a few people aren't using it correctly without bias...

Here's a dumb idea that will never happen but might give one person in this sad world a chuckle... hide the name of the commentor until you have voted the post up, neutral, or down. Who cares who the person is that is posting anyway, what is being said matters much more. And if you do care to see who actually said it, then vote and see. I bet a bunch of people that seem like they are angry and in disagreement with another guy all the time might find they agree a lot and are just maintaing a bias towards that guy they let linger from previous discussions. Anyway, never gunna happen... people wanna flaunt their flashy avatars all the time without requiring people to think and vote about their comment, lol.

We've already told you what's happening right now. The consistent rolls are a thing that our players just aren't built for right now. The randomness evidenced by our lack of complete builds is clear and it is causing our players to miss seemingly remedial rolls by a wide margin. It happens.

Implying something is OP based on what's going on now is sort of a stretch. Just because we can walk the ball up and down the field against most of our opponents, does not mean they can do the same to us. Only a handful of teams can put up the yardage we can right now.

We're in the first season right now. Calm down.

^ The rolls have nothing to do with the coverage players not being sufficient in either of the 2 categories of pass defense...

Problem has nothing to do with rolls or anything...

Problem is WRs beat CBs too easily, and the skills CBs need to stop them will be built up far slower than WR skills (just by virtue of how the sim is).

Phaytie understands...

Originally posted by Jampy2.0
^ The rolls have nothing to do with the coverage players not being sufficient in either of the 2 categories of pass defense...

Problem has nothing to do with rolls or anything...

Problem is WRs beat CBs too easily, and the skills CBs need to stop them will be built up far slower than WR skills (just by virtue of how the sim is).

Phaytie understands...


You're wrong though. You're implying CBs have more to deal with build wise. WRs have plenty of different attributes to deal with just for catching the ball. I'd say it's relatively equal right now. The issue is how the positions are being built right now... not the inherent advantage of one position over another.

Well not really since even at Day 1 WRs were shaking CBs off while running routes and catching lots.

WRs have to do 2 things: Run Route, Catch ball.

If WRs can beat CBs just by running the route even with minimal route running skills,

game over.

Originally posted by Homage
You're wrong though. You're implying CBs have more to deal with build wise. WRs have plenty of different attributes to deal with just for catching the ball. I'd say it's relatively equal right now. The issue is how the positions are being built right now... not the inherent advantage of one position over another.



No we're not. But now I am saying you can't comprehend English and pointing to your last couple posts. Coverage is shitty, not because of any skills. And the only thing the defenders can do right now to try to improve it at all is dump all their points into getting closer to the receiver or the ball. Reread the last couple pages.

Right now receivers are getting separation no matter how crappy route running or physical skills they have, even against CBs dumping all their points to focus on being good cover guys. Even a CB does manage to get on the hip of a receiver when the ball is thrown the receiver always reacts way sooner than the defender. And how are you going to initiate a deflection or interception roll from 5+ yards away?

It's not a stretch to postulate the problem exacerbating itself if you actually understand is going on now.

Originally posted by -Phaytle-
It's not a stretch to postulate the problem exacerbating itself if you actually understand is going on now.

It's also not a stretch to postulate the problem correcting itself as builds round out.

Right now everyone is guessing based on the opinion of the two dozen (tops) testers that actually tried. With many more people actively playing now you're likely to see some "figure it out".

I'll say it again. Don't ask for changes now. Wait until we've reached veteran and the issues still consistently exist. At that point, you make adjustments to get the end-game the way you want it.

Originally posted by AirMcMVP

I'll say it again. Don't ask for changes now. Wait until we've reached veteran and the issues still consistently exist. At that point, you make adjustments to get the end-game the way you want it.

One of the selling points to glb1ers was that your Joe could be competitive from Day 1 to plateau.

Kinda lulzy how now we have to wait until end game to see our Joes perform,
flashbacks to GLB1... inb4rage

Originally posted by Jampy2.0
One of the selling points to glb1ers was that your Joe could be competitive from Day 1 to plateau.

Kinda lulzy how now we have to wait until end game to see our Joes perform,
flashbacks to GLB1... inb4rage

Twisting my words.

If the sim is adjusted now, you're adjusting based on builds that aren't even 20% complete. Wait until season 6 (or even season 7) and adjust then based on veteran. Once you have veteran balanced you add modifiers to the levels below.

There's actually another flaw in your logic, tbh. You mentioned earlier that there were very few passes < 5 yards being completed so the ~50% completion percentage was actually inflated. If you buff defenses to stop long passes then you'll see passing really suffer which means offensive players aren't competitive.

Have you forgotten how good the run game is? Lol

You probably have since everyone has jumped on the passing bandwagon because of how OP it is.

Sure... Wait 6 seasons and buff low level pass coverage, or do it tomorrow...

Either way it's going to happen lol...

Either we get better plays, or something in the sim will have to give.

Originally posted by Jampy2.0
Either we get better plays.

I can get on board with this. More options is always better.

Originally posted by Jampy2.0
Have you forgotten how good the run game is? Lol

You probably have since everyone has jumped on the passing bandwagon because of how OP it is.

Sure... Wait 6 seasons and buff low level pass coverage, or do it tomorrow...

Either way it's going to happen lol...

Either we get better plays, or something in the sim will have to give.

You buff low level pass coverage and then what? Guys have sub 20% reception % levels? Sounds fucking awesome. The reason why the game is constantly jacked up is because people put the cart before the horse every single time. Lets apply buff/nerf to this which just ends up solving a minor problem and making a huge problem. So then what? Oh lets Buff catching at lower levels. Ok now guys are catching shit in coverage regardless of the coverage. Sweet. Both sides rage rage rage when we could simply let things play out, get some better defenses in line and make a better educated opinion on what needs to be done. Now I highly doubt anything is going to be added in midseason for plays and what not because of the infamous vote 30 seasons back but just play out the season with what ya got and make the most of it. Then we will see what they got in store for season 2.