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Shrazkil
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Originally posted by jdbolick

We could listen to you, someone who has never built any elite players ever, or we could listen to someone who has multiple EL records with 4 AEQ that no one else on GLB could even match on 3 AEQ dots.

Think about why you push the first attribute instead of including that in the circle cap as well. You push the first attribute because doing so gets that to a higher end-build level and maximizes the value of those ALGs. You should push the second attribute for exactly the same reason. Rotating caps between multiple attributes means that those earlier attributes will never get as high as they could by focusing on them sequentially. You should only switch to circle capping when you're dealing with attributes that you don't plan to be above 90 natural by the end-build. That isn't to say that you always put every skill point into the first and then second attributes without deviating, since as I noted earlier there are times when you can cap another attribute without affecting the ALGs. But in general, you want to focus on one attribute at a time for skill point investment. The exception would be if you're building something like a linebacker or cornerback where you want a lot of attributes to be at a similar level in the low to high 80s as opposed to having two or three attributes in the 90s or above.


If you need an extreme secondary stat, then yes there are times to limit the quad training of secondaries to push the second higher. I get where you are coming from, but in general you are saving more SP total by capping a multi to 48 earlier, than you are a higher pushed secondary. By no means do i suggest you do not know how to build, but that is all old school building. The same principles don't always apply to the APD era. So previous success with building is irrelivent. During the period you were building great old school dots, i was SSB dots (which is why i have had no lvl 79's yet) , which was the best bang at the time for my limited flex.
Edited by Shrazkil on Jan 26, 2012 12:35:10
 
jdbolick
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Here is Shrazkil's level 73 DE: http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2146369
Here is my level 60 DE: http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2308293

My level 60 DE's main attribute is 5.62 points higher than Shrazil's main attribute despite being 13 levels lower. My secondary attribute is only 0.80 behind Shrazkil's second despite being 13 levels lower. My third attribute is currently 2.29 points behind Shrazil's despite being 13 levels lower. Clearly my DE will end up being a dramatically better build than Shrazkil's, which is why his level 73 dots are still playing in Regional Pro. He believes he knows what he's talking about, and yet he doesn't.

Circle capping early on means that you end up with lower primaries than someone who didn't, and that means you will probably not be playing in the World League and you certainly won't be an impact player if you can get to that level. It's an approach that gives you better results in fourth and fifth attributes than sequential capping does, but fourth and fifth attributes don't determine a great build.
 
Shrazkil
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Originally posted by jdbolick
Here is Shrazkil's level 73 DE: http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2146369
Here is my level 60 DE: http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2308293

My level 60 DE's main attribute is 5.62 points higher than Shrazil's main attribute despite being 13 levels lower. My secondary attribute is only 0.80 behind Shrazkil's second despite being 13 levels lower. My third attribute is currently 2.29 points behind Shrazil's despite being 13 levels lower. Clearly my DE will end up being a dramatically better build than Shrazkil's, which is why his level 73 dots are still playing in Regional Pro. He believes he knows what he's talking about, and yet he doesn't.

Circle capping early on means that you end up with lower primaries than someone who didn't, and that means you will probably not be playing in the World League and you certainly won't be an impact player if you can get to that level. It's an approach that gives you better results in fourth and fifth attributes than sequential capping does, but fourth and fifth attributes don't determine a great build.


Actually all/most all my dots will be in world league. My EL will likey still be higher then your DE, but again, you are compairing old build styles with new techniques. My DE was less then perfect, lots of things that would have been done differently in new APD era.
 
jdbolick
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Originally posted by Shrazkil
Actually all/most all my dots will be in world league. My EL will likey still be higher then your DE, but again, you are compairing old build styles with new techniques. My DE was less then perfect, lots of things that would have been done differently in new APD era.

No, they won't. And your EL will be significantly lower than mine on those DEs because your three main attributes will all be significantly lower than mine. I appreciate that you're trying to help people and that you think you know what's best, but you clearly don't. Being argumentative and stubborn against someone who has actually proven they know what they're doing and has explained why you're wrong isn't serving anyone. Your method of building produces dots with inferior primary attributes, and whether you like it or not, extreme primary attributes are what make great dots in those sim.

Again, it is fine to go to first cap the third attribute before taking the second one all the way to 83, but for the most part you should absolutely focus on sequentially capping the first, then second, then third attributes. Circle-capping early on produces an inferior build that is well-rounded but doesn't have elite numbers in the main attributes.
 
jdbolick
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I ran it through the VPB, and for the record, at level 73 my dot's primary attribute will be 8.35 points higher, my second attribute will be 2.93 points higher, and my third attribute will be 0.47 points lower. And that's only if I don't bother to train that third attribute anymore, which I wasn't really planning to. Your dot will have a significant advantage in the fourth and fifth attributes, will be virtually equal in the sixth, and mine will have an advantage in the seventh.
 
Bane
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well this thread sure did go from a good discussion on circle capping to a "my dots are better than yours" fest awfully fast
 
jdbolick
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Originally posted by Behn
well this thread sure did go from a good discussion on circle capping to a "my dots are better than yours" fest awfully fast

The comparison shows the results of circle capping, and the other thread on when to multi-train shows why Shrazkil and presumably you favor circle capping since multi-training too early gets your other attributes into the 30s too early. Circle capping produces an advantage in the fourth and fifth attributes at the cost of an inferior first and second attribute. I strongly recommend prioritizing the first and second attribute over the fourth and fifth.
 
Shrazkil
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Originally posted by jdbolick

The comparison shows the results of circle capping, and the other thread on when to multi-train shows why Shrazkil and presumably you favor circle capping since multi-training too early gets your other attributes into the 30s too early. Circle capping produces an advantage in the fourth and fifth attributes at the cost of an inferior first and second attribute. I strongly recommend prioritizing the first and second attribute over the fourth and fifth.


If you do it right, by the time you cap your first attribute at 86, the rest of your unlocks sit at around 31-34, perfect to cap during second pre season. You just have to make sure you don't put your creation points into your second or third attributes beyond a point or two to make sure its at a more favorable cap point and leaves room for leveling to cap. Ideally when my first season ends in this sim, my main attribute is at 86 (trained 95+) and my secondary is at 35 , third at 33, 4th at 31.
 
Shrazkil
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Originally posted by Shrazkil
If you do it right, by the time you cap your first attribute at 86, the rest of your unlocks sit at around 31-34, perfect to cap during second pre season. You just have to make sure you don't put your creation points into your second or third attributes beyond a point or two to make sure its at a more favorable cap point and leaves room for leveling to cap. Ideally when my first season ends in this sim, my main attribute is at 86 (trained 95+) and my secondary is at 35 , third at 33, 4th at 31.


Plus recently i have taken to unlocking a 4th MT in season 2, so if need be and i want to raise 2ndary to a more favorable cap point, i can pull off of one of my initial unlocks, and start something for a few trains to take advantage of the extemely beneficial train percents while low.
 
jdbolick
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Originally posted by Shrazkil
If you do it right, by the time you cap your first attribute at 86, the rest of your unlocks sit at around 31-34, perfect to cap during second pre season. You just have to make sure you don't put your creation points into your second or third attributes beyond a point or two to make sure its at a more favorable cap point and leaves room for leveling to cap. Ideally when my first season ends in this sim, my main attribute is at 86 (trained 95+) and my secondary is at 35 , third at 33, 4th at 31.

If you do it better (the way I suggested), then only your second will be ready for capping and you will have enough time to work on it while then getting your third and fourth to an appropriate level through multi-training. You can't cap everything it once, so it is not advantageous to have everything trained into the mid-30s at the same time.
 
Shrazkil
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Originally posted by jdbolick
Here is Shrazkil's level 73 DE: http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2146369
Here is my level 60 DE: http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2308293

My level 60 DE's main attribute is 5.62 points higher than Shrazil's main attribute despite being 13 levels lower. My secondary attribute is only 0.80 behind Shrazkil's second despite being 13 levels lower. My third attribute is currently 2.29 points behind Shrazil's despite being 13 levels lower. Clearly my DE will end up being a dramatically better build than Shrazkil's, which is why his level 73 dots are still playing in Regional Pro. He believes he knows what he's talking about, and yet he doesn't.

Circle capping early on means that you end up with lower primaries than someone who didn't, and that means you will probably not be playing in the World League and you certainly won't be an impact player if you can get to that level. It's an approach that gives you better results in fourth and fifth attributes than sequential capping does, but fourth and fifth attributes don't determine a great build.

Closest age compairison , plus its a morale build experiment with hands and pummel.
Your C :http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2036633
My C:http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2145200 1404 ending EL.
 
Shrazkil
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130 EL difference is pretty huge, but BLAH just saw it was a st, nm not valid comparison. Just looking to compare with non pre arch dot end builds.
Edited by Shrazkil on Jan 26, 2012 14:10:20
 
InRomoWeTrust
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Originally posted by Shrazkil
Originally posted by jdbolick

Here is Shrazkil's level 73 DE: http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2146369
Here is my level 60 DE: http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2308293

My level 60 DE's main attribute is 5.62 points higher than Shrazil's main attribute despite being 13 levels lower. My secondary attribute is only 0.80 behind Shrazkil's second despite being 13 levels lower. My third attribute is currently 2.29 points behind Shrazil's despite being 13 levels lower. Clearly my DE will end up being a dramatically better build than Shrazkil's, which is why his level 73 dots are still playing in Regional Pro. He believes he knows what he's talking about, and yet he doesn't.

Circle capping early on means that you end up with lower primaries than someone who didn't, and that means you will probably not be playing in the World League and you certainly won't be an impact player if you can get to that level. It's an approach that gives you better results in fourth and fifth attributes than sequential capping does, but fourth and fifth attributes don't determine a great build.

Closest age compairison , plus its a morale build experiment with hands and pummel.
Your C :http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2036633
My C:http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2145200 1404 ending EL.


Did you really just try to compare a 5 major dot to a 4 major one? Ignoring the whole STOP side of the argument, lol.
 
Shrazkil
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Originally posted by Mat McBriar
Did you really just try to compare a 5 major dot to a 4 major one? Ignoring the whole STOP side of the argument, lol.


already edited, just was looking at age for pre-arch and closest day age.
 
Bane
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Originally posted by jdbolick

The comparison shows the results of circle capping, and the other thread on when to multi-train shows why Shrazkil and presumably you favor circle capping since multi-training too early gets your other attributes into the 30s too early.


Dude I didn't even know what circle capping WAS until this thread. I just do what I do because that's how I do it. I never said it was right or wrong, or better than anyone else's methods of building.

What I do works for me , but I did also say, in either this thread or that other one, that I am going to try some dots this season the way you are explaining.

I don't know what to call the way I build my players, so from here on out it shall be referred to as:

Isosceles Triangle Building
 
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