Warrior General Games

Originally posted by merenoise
These ranking don't factor head to head in very much I guess. I can't see Tarapota being behind a team they already beat and Hawaii has lost to two teams ahead of them in the rankings.

It doesn't factor in head-to-heads at all but if it did Tarapota would still be pretty low cause they got smacked around badly by Hawaii so it would just flip the 1 and 2 positions and not change much else.

It does factor in the quality of the games on individual game levels however and so it was probably a case of the 2 losses from Hawaii being very close statistically while the loss from Minnesota was probably not as close.

Rank (+/-) .. W - L ... Off ( P / R ) .... Def ( P / R ) ..... SoS ...... Team
1 ( 0) ........... 10 - 2 .... 4 (4 / 5) .......... 2 (1 / 4) ........... 0.521 .... Hawaii Phoenixes
2 ( 0) ........... 11 - 1 .... 2 (5 / 3) .......... 5 (7 / 1) ........... 0.549 .... Minnesota Monsters
3 ( 0) ........... 10 - 2 .... 3 (8 / 4) .......... 1 (2 / 3) ........... 0.514 .... Undertakers 3.0 Training Facility, Sun City Africa
4 ( 0) ........... 12 - 0 .... 1 (1 / 2) .......... 11 (6 / 18) ....... 0.417 .... Tarapota Horny Rabbits
5 ( 0) ........... 11 - 1 .... 7 (7 / 6) .......... 10 (8 / 5) ......... 0.542 .... Legion Of Dynamic Discord
6 ( 0) ........... 10 - 2 .... 6 (11 / 10) ...... 4 (3 / 2) ........... 0.458 .... Montreal Ice
7 ( 1) ........... 10 - 2 .... 11 (22 / 8) ...... 3 (4 / 16) ......... 0.458 .... Crotch Lake Chronic Hugos
8 (-1) ........... 9 - 3 ...... 5 (6 / 1) .......... 13 (21 / 12) ..... 0.465 .... Dawg Pound Gangstas
9 ( 1) ........... 8 - 4 ...... 9 (3 / 7) .......... 6 (16 / 6) ......... 0.528 .... Berlin Widow Makers
10 (-1) ......... 9 - 3 ...... 10 (2 / 12) ...... 8 (9 / 11) ......... 0.486 .... Lombardy Raiders
11 ( 0) ......... 8 - 4 ...... 8 (9 / 13) ........ 9 (15 / 8) ......... 0.542 .... Cairns City Crocodiles Croc
12 ( 0) ......... 8 - 4 ...... 12 (21 / 14) .... 7 (5 / 9) ........... 0.451 .... Ramsey Locos
13 ( 0) ......... 7 - 5 ...... 13 (18 / 11) .... 20 (20 / 23) ..... 0.507 .... Chicago Lightning
14 ( 1) ......... 6 - 6 ...... 21 (19 / 19) .... 12 (11 / 7) ....... 0.507 .... Ohio Blue Tips
15 (-1) ......... 6 - 6 ...... 14 (15 / 9) ...... 14 (19 / 21) ..... 0.528 .... Vella Gulf Destroyers
16 ( 0) ......... 6 - 6 ...... 18 (12 / 15) .... 17 (23 / 13) ..... 0.493 .... Chocolate City Cha Chings
17 ( 1) ......... 6 - 6 ...... 20 (24 / 22) .... 19 (14 / 14) ..... 0.528 .... Blazing Eagles
18 (-1) ......... 5 - 7 ...... 17 (16 / 16) .... 16 (22 / 19) ..... 0.528 .... Death Valley Horsemen Of The Apocalypse
19 ( 0) ......... 4 - 8 ...... 16 (10 / 18) .... 18 (17 / 17) ..... 0.528 .... (N.M.I) Pagan Fire Eaters
20 ( 0) ......... 4 - 8 ...... 22 (14 / 25) .... 15 (10 / 10) ..... 0.549 .... CATS 2.0
21 ( 0) ......... 5 - 7 ...... 25 (31 / 21) .... 21 (12 / 15) ..... 0.486 .... Bamako Black Magic
22 ( 2) ......... 5 - 7 ...... 23 (30 / 20) .... 22 (24 / 25) ..... 0.486 .... Panorama Hills Dragons
23 (-1) ......... 4 - 8 ...... 19 (29 / 17) .... 24 (18 / 22) ..... 0.507 .... Dutch Harbor Deadliest Catch
24 (-1) ......... 3 - 9 ...... 24 (17 / 24) .... 23 (13 / 20) ..... 0.472 .... Huntsville Panthers
25 ( 0) ......... 4 - 8 ...... 26 (23 / 30) .... 25 (26 / 30) ..... 0.424 .... Auburn Tigers
26 ( 0) ......... 3 - 9 ...... 27 (20 / 26) .... 27 (31 / 24) ..... 0.493 .... Tucson Terror
27 ( 0) ......... 2 - 10 .... 29 (25 / 28) .... 26 (27 / 27) ..... 0.556 .... Minnesota Berserkers
28 ( 0) ......... 1 - 11 .... 30 (28 / 27) .... 30 (29 / 29) ..... 0.465 .... Vancouver Lions
29 ( 0) ......... 1 - 11 .... 32 (27 / 29) .... 31 (32 / 32) ..... 0.562 .... New York Metropolitan Jets
30 ( 0) ......... 0 - 12 .... 28 (26 / 23) .... 29 (25 / 26) ..... 0.514 .... Texas Oilers
31 ( 0) ......... 0 - 12 .... 31 (32 / 31) .... 32 (30 / 31) ..... 0.500 .... Minnesota Legacy
32 ( 0) ......... 4 - 8 ...... 15 (13 / 32) .... 28 (28 / 28) ..... 0.437 .... Gunny Highway's Boot Camp

Originally posted by Westwind
Originally posted by merenoise

These ranking don't factor head to head in very much I guess. I can't see Tarapota being behind a team they already beat and Hawaii has lost to two teams ahead of them in the rankings.

It doesn't factor in head-to-heads at all but if it did Tarapota would still be pretty low cause they got smacked around badly by Hawaii so it would just flip the 1 and 2 positions and not change much else.

It does factor in the quality of the games on individual game levels however and so it was probably a case of the 2 losses from Hawaii being very close statistically while the loss from Minnesota was probably not as close.

That doesn't really make sense since Hawaii lost by 7 to LoDD and 14 to the Monsters with the Monsters only loss being a 2 point loss. Also the Undertakers lost to two of the top 5 teams and are ahead of a team with no losses. I see Hawaii & Undertakers as maybe as high as 3rd or 4th but certainly not ahead of Tarpota or Minnesota both of whom have handled their business. Thanks for doing these anyway, fun to look at.

Originally posted by merenoise
That doesn't really make sense since Hawaii lost by 7 to LoDD and 14 to the Monsters with the Monsters only loss being a 2 point loss. Also the Undertakers lost to two of the top 5 teams and are ahead of a team with no losses. I see Hawaii & Undertakers as maybe as high as 3rd or 4th but certainly not ahead of Tarpota or Minnesota both of whom have handled their business. Thanks for doing these anyway, fun to look at.

The rankings program doesn't just take wins as the only factor for the quality of a team. If you want that type of ranking, just click on the "league" button as it arranges the team rankings by wins and head-to-head tie breakers and such. I rank based on a lot of different factors wins being only 1 of them.

The ranking script is also open source so you can evaluate the ranking algorithm yourself and suggest improvements. Right now it factors in the following, all scaled against the quality of the opponent (beating a 0-12 team doesn't have much weight at all, beating a 12-0 team has a ton of weight)
- wins
- scores made
- passing efficiency + running efficiency
- scores allowed
- passing + running efficiency allowed

So while wins are nice, they make up only 20% of the rating algorithm. And like i said before, it doesn't care about head-to-head results. It is much to complicated to work out cyclical calculations (a beat b beat c beat a). And it happens every season causing things to just look wrong top to bottom.

In the particular issue you are having problems with, it is because Monsters lost to a team that is significantly worse then the teams Hawaii lost to.

Week 13 Rankings for Competitive Minors Lv 22 #2
Rank (+/-) .. W - L ... Off ( P / R ) .... Def ( P / R ) ..... SoS ...... Team
1 ( 0) ........... 11 - 2 .... 4 (2 / 5) .......... 2 (1 / 5) ........... 0.509 .... Hawaii Phoenixes
2 ( 1) ........... 11 - 2 .... 2 (8 / 3) .......... 1 (2 / 3) ........... 0.503 .... Undertakers 3.0 Training Facility, Sun City Africa
3 (-1) ........... 12 - 1 .... 3 (6 / 4) .......... 3 (7 / 1) ........... 0.509 .... Minnesota Monsters
4 ( 0) ........... 13 - 0 .... 1 (1 / 1) .......... 10 (5 / 18) ....... 0.414 .... Tarapota Horny Rabbits
5 ( 0) ........... 12 - 1 .... 6 (7 / 6) .......... 9 (8 / 4) ........... 0.562 .... Legion Of Dynamic Discord
6 ( 0) ........... 10 - 3 .... 7 (11 / 9) ........ 4 (4 / 2) ........... 0.473 .... Montreal Ice
7 ( 2) ........... 9 - 4 ...... 9 (3 / 8) .......... 7 (15 / 6) ......... 0.538 .... Berlin Widow Makers
8 ( 0) ........... 10 - 3 .... 5 (5 / 2) .......... 13 (24 / 11) ..... 0.444 .... Dawg Pound Gangstas
9 (-2) ........... 10 - 3 .... 10 (24 / 7) ...... 5 (3 / 14) ......... 0.503 .... Crotch Lake Chronic Hugos
10 ( 1) ......... 9 - 4 ...... 8 (9 / 13) ........ 8 (13 / 8) ......... 0.503 .... Cairns City Crocodiles Croc
11 (-1) ......... 10 - 3 .... 12 (4 / 12) ...... 11 (11 / 15) ..... 0.450 .... Lombardy Raiders
12 ( 0) ......... 9 - 4 ...... 13 (20 / 16) .... 6 (6 / 9) ........... 0.426 .... Ramsey Locos
13 ( 1) ......... 7 - 6 ...... 20 (15 / 18) .... 12 (9 / 7) ......... 0.515 .... Ohio Blue Tips
14 ( 1) ......... 7 - 6 ...... 14 (16 / 10) .... 15 (19 / 21) ..... 0.503 .... Vella Gulf Destroyers
15 (-2) ......... 7 - 6 ...... 11 (19 / 11) .... 20 (22 / 23) ..... 0.521 .... Chicago Lightning
16 ( 0) ......... 7 - 6 ...... 18 (12 / 17) .... 17 (23 / 13) ..... 0.462 .... Chocolate City Cha Chings
17 ( 1) ......... 6 - 7 ...... 15 (17 / 14) .... 14 (21 / 19) ..... 0.509 .... Death Valley Horsemen Of The Apocalypse
18 (-1) ......... 6 - 7 ...... 21 (22 / 20) .... 19 (16 / 12) ..... 0.515 .... Blazing Eagles
19 ( 1) ......... 5 - 8 ...... 23 (14 / 25) .... 16 (10 / 10) ..... 0.538 .... CATS 2.0
20 (-1) ......... 4 - 9 ...... 16 (10 / 19) .... 18 (17 / 17) ..... 0.550 .... (N.M.I) Pagan Fire Eaters
21 ( 1) ......... 6 - 7 ...... 22 (30 / 23) .... 21 (20 / 26) ..... 0.467 .... Panorama Hills Dragons
22 ( 1) ......... 4 - 9 ...... 19 (29 / 15) .... 24 (18 / 22) ..... 0.509 .... Dutch Harbor Deadliest Catch
23 ( 1) ......... 3 - 10 .... 24 (13 / 24) .... 23 (14 / 20) ..... 0.497 .... Huntsville Panthers
24 (-3) ......... 5 - 8 ...... 25 (31 / 21) .... 22 (12 / 16) ..... 0.521 .... Bamako Black Magic
25 ( 0) ......... 4 - 9 ...... 26 (25 / 30) .... 25 (26 / 30) ..... 0.462 .... Auburn Tigers
26 ( 0) ......... 3 - 10 .... 27 (21 / 27) .... 27 (31 / 24) ..... 0.497 .... Tucson Terror
27 ( 0) ......... 2 - 11 .... 29 (23 / 28) .... 26 (27 / 27) ..... 0.556 .... Minnesota Berserkers
28 ( 0) ......... 1 - 12 .... 30 (27 / 26) .... 30 (29 / 29) ..... 0.473 .... Vancouver Lions
29 ( 0) ......... 1 - 12 .... 32 (28 / 29) .... 31 (32 / 32) ..... 0.568 .... New York Metropolitan Jets
30 ( 0) ......... 0 - 13 .... 28 (26 / 22) .... 28 (25 / 25) ..... 0.538 .... Texas Oilers
31 ( 0) ......... 0 - 13 .... 31 (32 / 31) .... 32 (30 / 31) ..... 0.527 .... Minnesota Legacy
32 ( 0) ......... 4 - 9 ...... 17 (18 / 32) .... 29 (28 / 28) ..... 0.438 .... Gunny Highway's Boot Camp

Thanks for doing these. Glad to see Berlin moving up. They've had some very impressive wins!

Originally posted by Westwind
Originally posted by merenoise

That doesn't really make sense since Hawaii lost by 7 to LoDD and 14 to the Monsters with the Monsters only loss being a 2 point loss. Also the Undertakers lost to two of the top 5 teams and are ahead of a team with no losses. I see Hawaii & Undertakers as maybe as high as 3rd or 4th but certainly not ahead of Tarpota or Minnesota both of whom have handled their business. Thanks for doing these anyway, fun to look at.

The rankings program doesn't just take wins as the only factor for the quality of a team. If you want that type of ranking, just click on the "league" button as it arranges the team rankings by wins and head-to-head tie breakers and such. I rank based on a lot of different factors wins being only 1 of them.

The ranking script is also open source so you can evaluate the ranking algorithm yourself and suggest improvements. Right now it factors in the following, all scaled against the quality of the opponent (beating a 0-12 team doesn't have much weight at all, beating a 12-0 team has a ton of weight)
- wins
- scores made
- passing efficiency + running efficiency
- scores allowed
- passing + running efficiency allowed

So while wins are nice, they make up only 20% of the rating algorithm. And like i said before, it doesn't care about head-to-head results. It is much to complicated to work out cyclical calculations (a beat b beat c beat a). And it happens every season causing things to just look wrong top to bottom.

In the particular issue you are having problems with, it is because Monsters lost to a team that is significantly worse then the teams Hawaii lost to.

Gotcha. That makes sense. Again, thanks for doing these, definitely cool to look at.

I'm not convinced Berlin is that much worse than the top 5. Great gameplanning going on there with well coordinated builds.

Originally posted by merenoise
I'm not convinced Berlin is that much worse than the top 5. Great gameplanning going on there with well coordinated builds.
Probably but there isn't a way for a computer to determine that so I'm using number of wins as a determining factor for how 'good' a team is. Each week that berlin wins makes the loss to berlin less painful in the rankings

Originally posted by Westwind
Originally posted by merenoise

I'm not convinced Berlin is that much worse than the top 5. Great gameplanning going on there with well coordinated builds.
Probably but there isn't a way for a computer to determine that so I'm using number of wins as a determining factor for how 'good' a team is. Each week that berlin wins makes the loss to berlin less painful in the rankings

I'm not a GM for Minnesota or Tarapota. Where they end up is not that big a deal to me, just was wondering how your script calculated things.

Originally posted by merenoise
I'm not convinced Berlin is that much worse than the top 5. Great gameplanning going on there with well coordinated builds.

This.

Week 14 Rankings for Competitive Minors Lv 22 #2
Rank (+/-) .. W - L ... Off ( P / R ) .... Def ( P / R ) ..... SoS ...... Team
1 ( 1) ........... 12 - 2 .... 2 (8 / 4) .......... 1 (2 / 3) ........... 0.490 .... Undertakers 3.0 Training Facility, Sun City Africa
2 (-1) ........... 12 - 2 .... 4 (1 / 5) .......... 2 (1 / 4) ........... 0.510 .... Hawaii Phoenixes
3 ( 0) ........... 13 - 1 .... 3 (6 / 3) .......... 5 (7 / 1) ........... 0.510 .... Minnesota Monsters
4 ( 0) ........... 14 - 0 .... 1 (2 / 1) .......... 10 (5 / 17) ....... 0.403 .... Tarapota Horny Rabbits
5 ( 0) ........... 13 - 1 .... 6 (7 / 6) .......... 9 (8 / 6) ........... 0.546 .... Legion Of Dynamic Discord
6 ( 0) ........... 11 - 3 .... 7 (10 / 11) ...... 4 (3 / 2) ........... 0.485 .... Montreal Ice
7 ( 1) ........... 11 - 3 .... 5 (4 / 2) .......... 13 (24 / 10) ..... 0.459 .... Dawg Pound Gangstas
8 (-1) ........... 10 - 4 .... 9 (3 / 8) .......... 7 (13 / 5) ......... 0.525 .... Berlin Widow Makers
9 ( 0) ........... 11 - 3 .... 11 (24 / 7) ...... 3 (4 / 13) ......... 0.474 .... Crotch Lake Chronic Hugos
10 ( 0) ......... 9 - 5 ...... 8 (9 / 15) ........ 8 (11 / 7) ......... 0.525 .... Cairns City Crocodiles Croc
11 ( 0) ......... 10 - 4 .... 13 (5 / 14) ...... 11 (12 / 15) ..... 0.454 .... Lombardy Raiders
12 ( 0) ......... 9 - 5 ...... 12 (20 / 17) .... 6 (6 / 9) ........... 0.454 .... Ramsey Locos
13 ( 0) ......... 8 - 6 ...... 17 (15 / 18) .... 12 (9 / 8) ......... 0.500 .... Ohio Blue Tips
14 ( 1) ......... 8 - 6 ...... 10 (18 / 10) .... 18 (21 / 23) ..... 0.500 .... Chicago Lightning
15 (-1) ......... 7 - 7 ...... 14 (16 / 9) ...... 16 (17 / 21) ..... 0.531 .... Vella Gulf Destroyers
16 ( 1) ......... 7 - 7 ...... 15 (14 / 12) .... 14 (19 / 14) ..... 0.525 .... Death Valley Horsemen Of The Apocalypse
17 (-1) ......... 7 - 7 ...... 16 (12 / 16) .... 17 (23 / 12) ..... 0.490 .... Chocolate City Cha Chings
18 ( 1) ......... 5 - 9 ...... 23 (13 / 26) .... 15 (10 / 11) ..... 0.546 .... CATS 2.0
19 (-1) ......... 7 - 7 ...... 21 (22 / 22) .... 20 (22 / 16) ..... 0.474 .... Blazing Eagles
20 ( 0) ......... 5 - 9 ...... 18 (11 / 19) .... 19 (16 / 18) ..... 0.510 .... (N.M.I) Pagan Fire Eaters
21 ( 0) ......... 7 - 7 ...... 22 (30 / 24) .... 21 (20 / 28) ..... 0.439 .... Panorama Hills Dragons
22 ( 0) ......... 4 - 10 .... 20 (29 / 13) .... 24 (15 / 22) ..... 0.541 .... Dutch Harbor Deadliest Catch
23 ( 0) ......... 3 - 11 .... 24 (17 / 21) .... 23 (14 / 19) ..... 0.531 .... Huntsville Panthers
24 ( 0) ......... 6 - 8 ...... 25 (31 / 23) .... 22 (18 / 20) ..... 0.485 .... Bamako Black Magic
25 ( 7) ......... 4 - 10 .... 19 (19 / 32) .... 29 (28 / 27) ..... 0.469 .... Gunny Highway's Boot Camp
26 (-1) ......... 4 - 10 .... 26 (26 / 30) .... 25 (25 / 30) ..... 0.469 .... Auburn Tigers
27 (-1) ......... 3 - 11 .... 27 (21 / 27) .... 27 (31 / 24) ..... 0.510 .... Tucson Terror
28 (-1) ......... 2 - 12 .... 29 (23 / 28) .... 26 (27 / 26) ..... 0.571 .... Minnesota Berserkers
29 (-1) ......... 1 - 13 .... 30 (27 / 25) .... 30 (29 / 29) ..... 0.474 .... Vancouver Lions
30 (-1) ......... 1 - 13 .... 32 (28 / 29) .... 31 (32 / 32) ..... 0.546 .... New York Metropolitan Jets
31 (-1) ......... 0 - 14 .... 28 (25 / 20) .... 28 (26 / 25) ..... 0.531 .... Texas Oilers
32 (-1) ......... 0 - 14 .... 31 (32 / 31) .... 32 (30 / 31) ..... 0.520 .... Minnesota Legacy

Week 13 7 ( 2) ........... 9 - 4 ...... 9 (3 / 8) .......... 7 (15 / 6) ......... 0.538 .... Berlin Widow Makers

Week 14 8 (-1) ........... 10 - 4 .... 9 (3 / 8) .......... 7 (13 / 5) ......... 0.525 .... Berlin Widow Makers

Thankful for the work, just a lil confused I guess.

Originally posted by LionsFanNCali
Week 13 7 ( 2) ........... 9 - 4 ...... 9 (3 / 8) .......... 7 (15 / 6) ......... 0.538 .... Berlin Widow Makers

Week 14 8 (-1) ........... 10 - 4 .... 9 (3 / 8) .......... 7 (13 / 5) ......... 0.525 .... Berlin Widow Makers

Thankful for the work, just a lil confused I guess.

Agreed. Hawaii and Undertakers are both very good teams but I don't see either of them in the top 3 tbh. Talented dots but they both have underperformed against the better teams in the league. Passing and running efficiency is nice and all but going into the playoffs as a #3 or #4 seed with multiple losses is not all that impressive, especially considering that both teams are in the top 5 in EL in the league.

To me Berlin and the Monsters are far more impressive since they are winning against quality teams with dots that are giving up plenty in the EL department. Good dots are all well and good but if you can't win when you are the favorites you are doing something wrong. Both clubs are in the bottom third of the conference in EL and are still winning against teams that have a 20-40 point advantage in EL.

Still it does make for great bulletin board material I'm sure.

Find me a mathematical formula that you guys to believe to be a more accurate assessment and we can discuss.

However, I personally would disagree with the thought that the multiple losses make them not great because for Undertakers as an example, they lost to 2 very good teams very early in the season and have since then probably tightened up the reigns on the OAI and DAI and have since been on a rampage. Hawaii had 1 sound loss and 1 loss that could be considered a string of luck. However, the team they lost to lost to a team that Hawaii crushed so it is about as controversial as the BSC rankings are in college.

But like I said, it was the best formula I could think of and nobody has been able to suggest a formula that works better over the 6 or so seasons I've been using it. Try to offer up something that works better and we can see how the rankings look and if they are more appropriate determination of rankings then I'll continue to use them.

Originally posted by LionsFanNCali
Week 13 7 ( 2) ........... 9 - 4 ...... 9 (3 / 8) .......... 7 (15 / 6) ......... 0.538 .... Berlin Widow Makers

Week 14 8 (-1) ........... 10 - 4 .... 9 (3 / 8) .......... 7 (13 / 5) ......... 0.525 .... Berlin Widow Makers

Thankful for the work, just a lil confused I guess.

If you guys like, I can start displaying the "power" rating numbers as well which will show how "close" people are in positions and how a slightest thing can flip the rankings. It isn't like a #7 is a lot better then #8. They could be neck-to-neck and only a 0.0002 rating difference on a scale of 0 to 10.

Originally posted by merenoise
Originally posted by LionsFanNCali

Week 13 7 ( 2) ........... 9 - 4 ...... 9 (3 / 8) .......... 7 (15 / 6) ......... 0.538 .... Berlin Widow Makers

Week 14 8 (-1) ........... 10 - 4 .... 9 (3 / 8) .......... 7 (13 / 5) ......... 0.525 .... Berlin Widow Makers

Thankful for the work, just a lil confused I guess.

Agreed. Hawaii and Undertakers are both very good teams but I don't see either of them in the top 3 tbh. Talented dots but they both have underperformed against the better teams in the league. Passing and running efficiency is nice and all but going into the playoffs as a #3 or #4 seed with multiple losses is not all that impressive, especially considering that both teams are in the top 5 in EL in the league.

To me Berlin and the Monsters are far more impressive since they are winning against quality teams with dots that are giving up plenty in the EL department. Good dots are all well and good but if you can't win when you are the favorites you are doing something wrong. Both clubs are in the bottom third of the conference in EL and are still winning against teams that have a 20-40 point advantage in EL.

Still it does make for great bulletin board material I'm sure.


Low EL at this level is a good sign of rounded out dots with SAs already started. Rounded out dots with SAs can usually dominate lolminors with some decent gameplanning. A higher EL does not necessarily make you a favorite.