Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Stray Doug
Ha, sorry... I read through the thread and by time I got to the end had forgotten that original link. Thank you.

No worries, it was a long OP.

Originally posted by Stray Doug
Still would like to see some examples of concessions sales from two consecutive non-promo games to get a sense of whether this single-product outlier phenomenon is fairly random occurring vs. specifically tied to promotion days.

Here's all I can provide. This is showing our concession sales for Home Games 3, 4, 5, 6. Home Games 5 & 6 were the ones referenced in the OP...and Home Games 3 & 4 were the two immediately preceding it. I can't include Home Games 1 & 2 because they both used a higher base-line pricing for each item. In games 3-6 the item prices remained the same, but our fan support should've increased slightly.

What I think it's going to show is further evidence of the impact of a promotion. The top two games used a Free Nacho Day, the third a Free Soft Drink Day, and the fourth No Promotion.

..Beer...Brew...Soft Drink...Nachos...Hot Dog...Foam...Jersey
18,243...27,187...12,848...22,620...14,407...13,324...6,373 * Free Nachos *
19,823...27,058...13,610...24,434...16,128...14,220...5,941 * Free Nachos *
19,929...27,231...15,041...21,903...16,427...14,231...5,951 * Free Soft Drinks *
19,854...27,027...13,555...21,850...16,252...14,355...5,955 * No Promo *

Hope this helps.

Originally posted by NiborRis
Not having been a team owner or involved in team ownership aspects, I'm going to hands off on this one, but I do agree looking at some examples of similar scored games (with similar fan support/attendance/whatnot, so usually close together) with no (or identical) promotions wouldn't be a bad idea either, just to see if single-product sales tend to have some outliers once in a while already. Do records go back far enough to look at prior season data or is that stuff current season only?

Promos have existed only since the start of Season 16...no cause to go back further.

Originally posted by FLGator
Promos have existed only since the start of Season 16...no cause to go back further.



But game data without promos, to compare against, would be around from day 1, that's what I was referring to.

Originally posted by NiborRis
But game data without promos, to compare against, would be around from day 1, that's what I was referring to.

Yes, but...

Originally posted by Changelog • http://goallineblitz.com/changelog.html


Jun 1, 2010
- Concession formula dialed back so max prices no longer sell as well as they had



...comparing concession sales this season to anything prior is not going to be useful.

Originally posted by FLGator
...comparing concession sales this season to anything prior is not going to be useful.

THAT is true, forgot about that change. Okay, like I said, not a team owner and basically no experience here, so I'm going to get hands off here

Originally posted by NiborRis
THAT is true, forgot about that change. Okay, like I said, not a team owner and basically no experience here, so I'm going to get hands off here



Just don't let this get buried in here...

Originally posted by FLGator

..Beer...Brew...Soft Drink...Nachos...Hot Dog...Foam...Jersey
19,823...27,058...13,610...24,434...16,128...14,220...5,941 * Free Nachos *
19,929...27,231...15,041...21,903...16,427...14,231...5,951 * Free Soft Drinks *
19,854...27,027...13,555...21,850...16,252...14,355...5,955 * No Promo *


Look at the variance in these three games in number of beers, microbrews, hot dogs, foam fingers, and replica jerseys. Next to none.

Look at the two games without a Free Nacho Day...21,903 vs. 21,850 nachos sold. On the Free Nacho Day...24,434.

Look at the two games without a Free Soft Drink Day...13,610 vs. 13,555 soft drinks sold. On the Free Soft Drink Day...15,041.

I apologize that I didn't have or provide this data in the OP. Now that it's there, I think it further illustrates the point.

my first reaction to this thread title was "well of course since they boost fan support"....but to only do this one the concession that is having the promotion is exceptionally odd.

Originally posted by kuaggie
my first reaction to this thread title was "well of course since they boost fan support"....but to only do this one the concession that is having the promotion is exceptionally odd.

This hasn't been active for a couple of days, so I'll bump it and comment at the same time.

I agree...the promotions should, logically, have some effect on concession sales as they do boost fan support. I'd argue that using common sense a free soft drink promotion should see a spike in soft drink sales for that game. Free Nacho Day should see increased Nacho sales.

However...

Originally posted by Catch22

May 20, 2010 13:50:49

Added the following note regarding non-premium promotions to clear up confusion some people were having:

These will be a buy one, get one free promotion and will have no effect on concession sales.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3946717&page=1#36040170


...based on the above statement and the evidence to the contrary, I guess it's a bug.

We have evidence that promotions are causing increase in sale of that product (at least some of the time).
We have a quote from Catch stating that this is not intended.

Therefore, I am close to calling this a bug, but before we do...

(a) I don't think we've established that this happens ALL of the time vs. SOME of the time... but that seems a pretty difficult thing to prove (where do you draw the line?)... but would like to see if anyone does have a counter-example where they ran a promotion and sales of an item did NOT increase relative to similar games with same pricing, that would be interesting to see (if it exists) just so we can at least try our best to identify this is an "always" vs. "intermittent" effect.

(b) Could it be that the quantities of items being "given away" as are being included in the totals, but they aren't actually being sold? I'd assume the way to check for this would be to multiply out the quantities times prices for each item and add for a given game... see if that matches the total revenue. Suppose 12k Nachos are listed on a promo day... is that 12k sold, or could it be 11k sold and 1k "given away" as part of promotion? Doing the math would confirm and is something I'd like us to figure out for sure before we pass this along the bug chain.

Originally posted by Stray Doug
We have evidence that promotions are causing increase in sale of that product (at least some of the time).
We have a quote from Catch stating that this is not intended.

Therefore, I am close to calling this a bug, but before we do...

(a) I don't think we've established that this happens ALL of the time vs. SOME of the time... but that seems a pretty difficult thing to prove (where do you draw the line?)... but would like to see if anyone does have a counter-example where they ran a promotion and sales of an item did NOT increase relative to similar games with same pricing, that would be interesting to see (if it exists) just so we can at least try our best to identify this is an "always" vs. "intermittent" effect.

(b) Could it be that the quantities of items being "given away" as are being included in the totals, but they aren't actually being sold? I'd assume the way to check for this would be to multiply out the quantities times prices for each item and add for a given game... see if that matches the total revenue. Suppose 12k Nachos are listed on a promo day... is that 12k sold, or could it be 11k sold and 1k "given away" as part of promotion? Doing the math would confirm and is something I'd like us to figure out for sure before we pass this along the bug chain.



I've done all I can to confirm (a) above.

I can also say definitively that (b) is not correct. The items "given away" are not included in the tally. I have an excel worksheet tracking concession sales this season...and only the items sold are included above. The "give away" items are not included.

Originally posted by FLGator
...based on the above statement and the evidence to the contrary, I guess it's a bug.

perhaps it's a miscommunication b/t Bort & Catch?

I'll try to get a couple more owners to post this before moving it to bugs.

06/04/2010 Mayan Marauders 7860 11454 5193 10126 6465 4928 2229
06/08/2010 Panama Pythons 8755 12271 5710 9608 7258 5427 2346
06/12/2010 Swedish Fish 38721 51675 25235 42558 33670 23937 9500
06/16/2010 Montezuma's Revenge 24230 29061 14620 24818 19777 13788 5303
06/20/2010 Colombian Warlords 22025 28180 14133 24086 19370 13265 5104
06/26/2010 Sons of Ragnarök 19759 27528 12891 22016 16886 12015 5240

Dallas Longhorns
http://goallineblitz.com/game/team.pl?team_id=4603

Game Date Opponent Beer Microbrew Soft Drink Nachos Hot Dog Finger Jersey
06/04/2010 Burlington Blue Devils 16330 32195 11718 19461 11583 10447 7115 - 100/100/100 support, max prices, no promotion
06/08/2010 Da Dirty Boyz 7608 15134 5551 9126 5489 4899 3327 - 100/100/100 support, max prices, mini helmet promotion
06/12/2010 Porto People Eaters 20074 40611 15205 24831 14804 12747 8837 - 100/100/100 support, 1.5x, no promotion
06/16/2010 Dotball Revolution 14436 28551 10244 20027 10335 9143 6254 - 100/100/100 support, 1.5x, Nacho promotion
06/20/2010 Dodge City Outlaws 14916 29776 10821 20670 10638 9501 6500 - 100/100/100 support, 1.5x, Nacho promotion
06/24/2010 Innsmouth Infamous 12526 25020 9047 17477 9082 7995 5518 - 100/100/100 support, 1.5x, Nacho promotion
06/28/2010 Mogadishu Malice 14564 29234 10547 17551 10473 9280 6433 - 100/100/99 support, 1.5x, no promotion

Originally posted by MikeJetsWord
06/04/2010 Mayan Marauders 7860 11454 5193 10126 6465 4928 2229
06/08/2010 Panama Pythons 8755 12271 5710 9608 7258 5427 2346
06/12/2010 Swedish Fish 38721 51675 25235 42558 33670 23937 9500
06/16/2010 Montezuma's Revenge 24230 29061 14620 24818 19777 13788 5303
06/20/2010 Colombian Warlords 22025 28180 14133 24086 19370 13265 5104
06/26/2010 Sons of Ragnarök 19759 27528 12891 22016 16886 12015 5240

average non-promotion sales:
nachos (the item put on promotion twice): 18570 (throwing out the gutted game)
beer: 16846
microbrew: 20608



promotion sales:
nachos: 17472 (-4%)
beer: 16045 (-6%)
microbrew: 20257 (-1%)



Originally posted by Bevo53
Dallas Longhorns
http://goallineblitz.com/game/team.pl?team_id=4603

Game Date Opponent Beer Microbrew Soft Drink Nachos Hot Dog Finger Jersey

06/08/2010 Da Dirty Boyz 7608 15134 5551 9126 5489 4899 3327 - 100/100/100 support, max prices, mini helmet promotion
06/12/2010 Porto People Eaters 20074 40611 15205 24831 14804 12747 8837 - 100/100/100 support, 1.5x, no promotion
06/16/2010 Dotball Revolution 14436 28551 10244 20027 10335 9143 6254 - 100/100/100 support, 1.5x, Nacho promotion
06/20/2010 Dodge City Outlaws 14916 29776 10821 20670 10638 9501 6500 - 100/100/100 support, 1.5x, Nacho promotion
06/24/2010 Innsmouth Infamous 12526 25020 9047 17477 9082 7995 5518 - 100/100/100 support, 1.5x, Nacho promotion
06/28/2010 Mogadishu Malice 14564 29234 10547 17551 10473 9280 6433 - 100/100/99 support, 1.5x, no promotion

for Dallas:

w/o nachos promotions:
Beer: 14082
Microbrew: 28326
Soft Drink: 10434
Nachos: 17169.3
Hot Dog: 5814
Foam Finger 8975
Jersey 6199

w/ nachos:
Beer: 12959 (-8%)
Microbrew: 27782 (-1.9%)
Soft Drink: 10137 (-2.8%)
Nachos: 19391 (+12.9%)
hot dogs: 6573 (+13 %)
Foam Finger 8879(-1%)
Jersey : 6090 (-1%)


looks like it could be the promotion. Something else to think about though is where in the price boundary you are.

A potential cause of this (what looks like a bug) could be how your concessions are priced.

For example say all concessions except for beer (hooray beer!) are in the middle of the range in which customers buy it. A rise in fan support isn't gonna do much to increase sales.

But say beer is at the top range, and a boost in fan support (or high scoring game) bumps it from the top range to middle range....all of a sudden there is a spike in sales.

I'd like to see other people weigh in, but there are just a ton of variables that make judging what's going on difficult. I'm p sure Bort would be able to save us all a bunch of time though and tell us what he coded.