Warrior General Games

Originally posted by OtisDriftwood
IDK man, I've watch Vernon Davis since the get go, yes alot of his big plays came on stream routes but who can cover those against him? Another thing is yes he wasnt real good at the route running thing his first few seasons but last season he did show up in nearly every game, in 11 of his 16 games he had over 40 yards receiving. In the games he had less then 40 yards all but 2 he scored in so he was game in and game out a factor.



To say that Jermichael Finley is better then vernon davis is borderline retarded

+1....the Finley comment can't be made at this time

PS....there isn't a TE in the NFL with the natural (physical) abilities that Vernon Davis has......he's a freak...and by the way, he's only 26. I really think Singletary has made a huge difference in the type of player Vernon Davis is.

This write up is such garbage

Originally posted by Dpride59
This write up is such garbage

You must be bored today!

Originally posted by jrry32
Davis is a TERRIBLE route runner and is not the best blocking TE in the NFL.



he may not be the best blocking TE (debatable) but all the other blocking TE's are not in the conversation about also being a receiving threat... and your reference about the games that Davis took off, plz post Alex's numbers too...

Finley v Davis... Rodgers vs Smith.... your arguments.... and perspective

I guess I don't understand how a TE can have 78 catches and 13 TD's and is accused of running terrible routes. I am going out on a limb here and assuming he does something right.

1 - 5 catches 40 yards
4 - 3 catches 41 yards and 1 TD
8 - 3 catches 20 yards and 1 TD
14 - 3 for 34 yards and 1 TD
16 - 3 for 16 yards and 1 TD

For those so called bad weeks, since when is scoring a TD a bad thing for a TE? I don't know that he is Top 5 or not, really don't care, but the guy can certainly be considered.

Originally posted by rjssob
I guess I don't understand how a TE can have 78 catches and 13 TD's and is accused of running terrible routes. I am going out on a limb here and assuming he does something right.

1 - 5 catches 40 yards
4 - 3 catches 41 yards and 1 TD
8 - 3 catches 20 yards and 1 TD
14 - 3 for 34 yards and 1 TD
16 - 3 for 16 yards and 1 TD

For those so called bad weeks, since when is scoring a TD a bad thing for a TE? I don't know that he is Top 5 or not, really don't care, but the guy can certainly be considered.

Well then don't enter this conversation, rj. You are judging SOLELY by stats and not by watching the player.

Originally posted by Redass Ranch
Originally posted by jrry32

Davis is a TERRIBLE route runner and is not the best blocking TE in the NFL.



he may not be the best blocking TE (debatable) but all the other blocking TE's are not in the conversation about also being a receiving threat... and your reference about the games that Davis took off, plz post Alex's numbers too...

Finley v Davis... Rodgers vs Smith.... your arguments.... and perspective

Rodgers is better than Smith but Finley is much younger, at 23, Davis had 20 catches for 200+ yards. You are correct that the other blocking TEs are not in the conversation as a receiving threat(well other than Witten and Miller) but Davis isn't the best blocker in the NFL. Him, Heath Miller and Witten would be a toss up for me in an argument for the best blocker with a lot of skill as a receiver. However, he's not a top 5 TE, the top 5 TEs are as follows:
1. Witten
2. Gates
3. Clark
4. Gonzalez(even if he is old)
5. Owen Daniels or Heath Miller

Originally posted by TUC
Originally posted by OtisDriftwood

IDK man, I've watch Vernon Davis since the get go, yes alot of his big plays came on stream routes but who can cover those against him? Another thing is yes he wasnt real good at the route running thing his first few seasons but last season he did show up in nearly every game, in 11 of his 16 games he had over 40 yards receiving. In the games he had less then 40 yards all but 2 he scored in so he was game in and game out a factor.



To say that Jermichael Finley is better then vernon davis is borderline retarded

+1....the Finley comment can't be made at this time

PS....there isn't a TE in the NFL with the natural (physical) abilities that Vernon Davis has......he's a freak...and by the way, he's only 26. I really think Singletary has made a huge difference in the type of player Vernon Davis is.

Actually, Jimmy Raye is the difference maker, not Singletary. Vernon Davis's athleticism and body is his downfall, he's so fast and big that he's not fluid and can't change directions suddenly. It's what has completely limited his game. Raye did a great job finding routes and situations to get Davis the ball but as teams see more and more of it, Davis's production will take a hit.

Originally posted by jrry32
Well then don't enter this conversation, rj. You are judging SOLELY by stats and not by watching the player.

You serious? The guy just had a monster season in the NFL and should only get better but for the sake of your argument stats are not a part of the equation? Okay, I'll agree the 13 TD's he scored were on some of the worst run routes in the history of the game. How many other TE's caught 13 or more TD's last season? Zero....On another note, do you really consider Clarke a TE? How many times does he actually line up with his hand down in a game? Your top 5 you list Witten but I would ask if you would not agree that a TE has to be a serious red zone threat and a go to guy for 3rd down conversions. Witten had 2 TD's so I am not sure if I am picking him number one...Can I please enter this conversation!

Originally posted by rjssob
Originally posted by jrry32

Well then don't enter this conversation, rj. You are judging SOLELY by stats and not by watching the player.

You serious? The guy just had a monster season in the NFL and should only get better but for the sake of your argument stats are not a part of the equation? Okay, I'll agree the 13 TD's he scored were on some of the worst run routes in the history of the game. How many other TE's caught 13 or more TD's last season? Zero....On another note, do you really consider Clarke a TE? How many times does he actually line up with his hand down in a game? Your top 5 you list Witten but I would ask if you would not agree that a TE has to be a serious red zone threat and a go to guy for 3rd down conversions. Witten had 2 TD's so I am not sure if I am picking him number one...Can I please enter this conversation!

What I am saying is if you don't actually watch the guy, don't jump into the argument because you really don't know what you're talking about. I am telling you now, he's not only going to get better. People seem to have no sense when it comes to these things. I tell people before this season that Joe Mauer isn't going to hit 28 HRs again because it was a statistical anomaly. "No, you are wrong, he's young, he'll only get better." No, you don't get how things work. Davis had a breakout year after being a mediocre TE all his career but when you actually watched him, the guy was running the same 2-3 routes over and over again. Now that DCs have a full season worth of film, you better bet they are going to planning for that. Vernon Davis's inability to run routes with hard cuts really handicaps his ability at TE. Witten is easily the best all-around TE in the NFL. He's a great blocker, athletic, can do anything you ask of him as a receiver and was Romo's most reliable WR. Him not catching a bunch of TDs couldn't mean less to me. It just amazes me that again and again people get awed by some guy putting up a great season that he'll never replicate again. If Vernon Davis has over 800 yards and 10 TDs next year, I'll be the most surprised guy around. He's a 1-trick pony. The thing I will say though is that Wes Welker has seemed to get along quite well year after year as a 1-trick pony so we'll see if Davis can too. The development of Crabtree should help him.

Just judging by your argument here, you think Chris Johnson is the best RB in the NFL and Adrian Peterson was the best RB in the NFL before this last season. If that's not true, my bad but some people are just so fickle that they buy into statistical anomalies that constantly warp their opinion on players.

hope your a great typist---all that for vernon

Also, here are some telling stats:
Davis - 67% of targets caught
Witten - 79% of targets caught
Gates - 73% of targets caught
Daniels - 76% of targets caught
Clark - 76% of targets caught
Miller - 83% of targets caught

I don't think you will find a thread where I say he is the best TE in the game so you can throw that out the window. TE's for the most part, not that much of route tree out there for them. Option routes are the majority and most TE's are not out there running routes where cuts need to be that sharp. Pretty simple concept for them, get inside coverage you are going to see them attack the outside shoulder and break to an out, get outside coverage and it is attack the inside shoulder and cut back in or hook. Tack on some vertical and crossing routes and your close to being home. As far as watching the guy, I probably watch more football than most people so I do see him play and I would say your argument is flawed at best. If you want to argue TE's, argue the guys that get down and dirty and play with their hands down in the dirt more often than not and can block and catch. My point there was that Clarke is really more of a receiver than a true TE. As far as RB's go, I think you have to start the argument with AD at the top and then go from there, but I would have no problem throwing Johnson into the mix to go along with of all people DeAngelo Williams. Welker is a freak, already been out on the field running routes with the Pats this season...

Landry, I have Jrry's wife type everything for me!

Originally posted by rjssob
I don't think you will find a thread where I say he is the best TE in the game so you can throw that out the window. TE's for the most part, not that much of route tree out there for them. Option routes are the majority and most TE's are not out there running routes where cuts need to be that sharp. Pretty simple concept for them, get inside coverage you are going to see them attack the outside shoulder and break to an out, get outside coverage and it is attack the inside shoulder and cut back in or hook. Tack on some vertical and crossing routes and your close to being home. As far as watching the guy, I probably watch more football than most people so I do see him play and I would say your argument is flawed at best. If you want to argue TE's, argue the guys that get down and dirty and play with their hands down in the dirt more often than not and can block and catch. My point there was that Clarke is really more of a receiver than a true TE. As far as RB's go, I think you have to start the argument with AD at the top and then go from there, but I would have no problem throwing Johnson into the mix to go along with all people DeAngelo Williams. Welker is a freak, already been out on the field running routes with the Pats this season...

Landry, I have Jrry's wife type everything for me!

didn't know she typed.....................................

Honestly, I don't know how she puts up with him...