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Whiskeybilt
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Originally posted by vorenus73
come on we all know what "spearchucker" means...


Agreed, you can argue the semantics all you want, it's a racist term and I think we all know it.
 
felixtovar
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Everyone on this game comes from modern society (we all have computers) and the players on your teams are professionals (they are paid). Therefore, their job is not to hunt for food using spears. To call them 'spearchuckers' is to imply they are primitive, unintelligent, and unable to buy food for themselves and their families without resorting to ancient hunting methods. The point of the name implies that black people are 'monkeyish' (I use this term begrudgingly and not lightly) while white man is 'civilized,' superior, and smart enough to buy his food without having to hunt for it.

That you use it and thought it was clever shows you knew what you were doing. End of story.
 
Whiskeybilt
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And as far as "it's only a game" it's only racism and human suffering. That's no joke and isn't fun.
 
Joebarber
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Originally posted by felixtovar
That you use it and thought it was clever shows you knew what you were doing. End of story.


Seriously? You're team name the Burundi Hutu committed genocide against the Tutsi's. It's no better than a team in WE being called the Germany Nazi's.
 
Parab00n
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Originally posted by Joebarber
Originally posted by felixtovar

That you use it and thought it was clever shows you knew what you were doing. End of story.


Seriously? You're team name the Burundi Hutu committed genocide against the Tutsi's. It's no better than a team in WE being called the Germany Nazi's.


Oh snap, I bet he didn't know that. He is now on google trying to verify your claims.
 
Coriantumr
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So calling a team the spearchuckers is bad, what about calling a team the Chiefs, or The Redskins?
 
Parab00n
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I'm so offended by Burundi Hutu, that name has nothing to do with football. These guys are savages in real life and they do not play football. I demand a name change.


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Burundi+Hutu
Last edited Jun 12, 2008 10:23:12
 
Parab00n
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Originally posted by Coriantumr
So calling a team the spearchuckers is bad, what about calling a team the Chiefs, or The Redskins?




My dad was a pirate and I have it on good autority they do not play football. You must change your name as well, sorry.
 
Iwan Owen
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Originally posted by Joebarber
Originally posted by felixtovar

That you use it and thought it was clever shows you knew what you were doing. End of story.


Seriously? You're team name the Burundi Hutu committed genocide against the Tutsi's. It's no better than a team in WE being called the Germany Nazi's.


Well spotted! People in glass houses etc etc...

 
felixtovar
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Look, the reason I called my team the Hutu was not to justify their violence upon the Tutsi, but because they are the massive majority (85% or so) tribe in Burundi.

If you look at the colonial history, the Belgians (preceeded by the Germans in the region that put the more 'racially pure' Tutsi in power) are the ones that put ethnic class strife in action where the minority Tutsi were in power. They did this to ensure a powerful, but small elite that could be easily manipulated and controlled (imaging trying to control 85% when 15% will do) by the colonial power.

Over the next 70 or so years, the Tutsi-dominated government and military oppressed, raped, and tortured the Hutu and destroyed entire Hutu villages without warning. In 1972, the violence escalated when ~200,000 Hutu were massacred including 198 of the 200 Hutu intellectuals (those with college degrees- knowledge is power). Those two that excaped, fled to London in exile (one of which is my friend Jean Marie Ngenboye). The other 198 and their families were murdered in their homes on a raid at night by the Tutsi-led military.

In 1993, the first democratically elected Hutu was assassinated by Tutsi paratroopers. The political upheaval caused massive civil unrest where the Tutsi-headed army were called in to quell the unrest and in turn executed hundreds of thousands of BOTH moderate Tutsi and Hutu. During this time, the Hutu reacted by creating a violent militia in response that also led to thousands of deaths.

To say that the Burundi massacres were not led by decades of oppression and violence against them is irresponsible.

The more infamous Hutu genocides you speak of were actually done in Rwanda.
In 1959, after the ruling Tutsi tried to take the life of a Hutu prime minister, the Hutu revolted and massacred ~60,000 (estimates vary) Tutsi.
With the Tutsi oppression still very real in Rwanda,the early 1960s saw the Hutu government give horrible power to the Hutu. This included the Hutu right to kill a Tutsi without penalty. During this time, the Tutsi was the national scapegoat for all the country's problems.
Later, in the late 1980s, the Hutu government made efforts for a multi-ethnic government, but failed due to setbacks. The Hutu government found out about a Tutsi force in Uganda that was trying to invade Rwanda to expedite a more pluralistic government to occur. This instead was seen as an attempt by the Tutsi to return to power. The ensuing civil strife caused the Hutu-led Tutsi massacre of 1993.

So, this should show that simple one-dimensional historical genocides have to be seen in light of what occurred before. No, I have never condoned the use of Hutu violence against the Tutsi. What I do understand is that the ethnic problems of modern day Burundi and Rwanda were exacerbated by colonial rule and compounded by time, power, class, and historical violence. I'm not taking a stand by being the Burundi Hutu, but trying to support a peaceful and more democratic Burundi by siding with the majority over the minority.
Last edited Jun 12, 2008 12:03:47
 
Parab00n
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Originally posted by felixtovar
Look, the reason I called my team the Hutu was not to justify their violence upon the Tutsi, but because they are the massive majority (85% or so) tribe in Burundi.

If you look at the colonial history, the Belgians (preceeded by the Germans in the region that put the more 'racially pure' Tutsi in power) are the ones that put ethnic class strife in action where the minority Tutsi were in power. They did this to ensure a powerful, but small elite that could be easily manipulated and controlled (imaging trying to control 85% when 15% will do) by the colonial power.

Over the next 70 or so years, the Tutsi-dominated government and military oppressed, raped, and tortured the Hutu and destroyed entire Hutu villages without warning. In 1972, the violence escalated when ~200,000 Hutu were massacred including 198 of the 200 Hutu intellectuals (those with college degrees- knowledge is power). Those two that excaped fled to London in exile, while the other 198 were murdered with their families in their homes at night by the Tutsi-led military.

In 1993, the first democratically elected Hutu was assassinated by Tutsi paratroopers. The political upheaval caused massive civil unrest where the Tutsi-headed army were called in to quell the unrest and in turn executed hundreds of thousands of BOTH moderate Tutsi and Hutu.

To say that the Burundi massacres were not led by decades of oppression and violence against them is irresponsible.

The more infamous Hutu genocides you speak of were actually done in Rwanda.
In 1959, after the ruling Tutsi tried to take the life of a Hutu prime minister, the Hutu revolted and massacred ~60,000 (estimates vary) Tutsi.
With the Tutsi oppression still very real in Rwanda,the early 1960s saw the Hutu government give horrible power to the Hutu. This included the Hutu right to kill a Tutsi without penalty. During this time, the Tutsi was the national scapegoat for all the country's problems.
Later, in the late 1980s, the Hutu government made efforts for a multi-ethnic government, but failed due to setbacks. The Hutu government found out about a Tutsi force in Uganda that was trying to invade Rwanda to expedite a more pluralistic government to occur. This instead was seen as an attempt by the Tutsi to return to power. The ensuing civil strife caused the Hutu-led Tutsi massacre of 1993.

So, this should show that simple one-dimensional historical genocides have to be seen in light of what occurred before. No, I have never condoned the use of Hutu violence against the Tutsi. What I do understand is that the ethnic problems of modern day Burundi and Rwanda were exacerbated by colonial rule and compounded by time, power, class, and historical violence. I'm not taking a stand by being the Burundi Hutu, but trying to support a peaceful and more democratic Burundi by siding with the majority over the minority.



Nice copy and paste job, I see you have left your original argument alone now. Google is a mother fucker.

 
felixtovar
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Are you kidding?! I just spent 30 minutes writing that from my own knowledge and books that I have.
Screw you dude, that took some time.

Actually, I'm flattered you think I copied and pasted.
Last edited Jun 12, 2008 12:09:40
 
Parab00n
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Originally posted by felixtovar
Are you kidding?! I just spent 30 minutes writing that from my own knowledge and books that I have.
Screw you dude, that took some time.

Actually, I'm flattered you think I copied and pasted.


I'm flattered that you were so thrown off your racist stage that you took 30 minutes on another subject.
 
Joebarber
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Originally posted by felixtovar
Look, the reason I called my team the Hutu was not to justify their violence upon the Tutsi, but because they are the massive majority (85% or so) tribe in Burundi.

To say that the Burundi massacres were not led by decades of oppression and violence against them is irresponsible.


To act as if they are unimportant because they had good reason is equally irresponsible. You're argument was trying to defend the reasoning behind the massacres, because the massacres themselves cannot be defended. You state that you did not condone the Hutu violence yet you name your team after them...right. And you are condoning peace by siding with the majority over the minority? Ok, that makes sense, why don't you condone peace by siding against the issues that are causing the trouble instead of just picking the majority side. If you were supporting a democratic Burundi then you would recognize the importance of the minority opinion in a democracy. While a democratic society does favor the majority opinion it is also important for the reason that it brings to light the minority opinion as well. But then again I guess you are trying to do your part for minorities by calling us out for being racists. Nice job getting a lot accomplished there.
It still stands that you are the owner of a team who is named after a group responsible for the genocide of a people. Keep it up Herr.
Originally posted by felixtovar

The more infamous Hutu genocides you speak of were actually done in Rwanda.

No actually I was talking about the ones pertaining to your boys in Burundi in 1993 where 400,000 Tutsi's were killed.

 
Parab00n
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Originally posted by Joebarber
Originally posted by felixtovar

Look, the reason I called my team the Hutu was not to justify their violence upon the Tutsi, but because they are the massive majority (85% or so) tribe in Burundi.

To say that the Burundi massacres were not led by decades of oppression and violence against them is irresponsible.


To act as if they are unimportant because they had good reason is equally irresponsible. You're argument was trying to defend the reasoning behind the massacres, because the massacres themselves cannot be defended. You state that you did not condone the Hutu violence yet you name your team after them...right. And you are condoning peace by siding with the majority over the minority? Ok, that makes sense, why don't you condone peace by siding against the issues that are causing the trouble instead of just picking the majority side. If you were supporting a democratic Burundi then you would recognize the importance of the minority opinion in a democracy. While a democratic society does favor the majority opinion it is also important for the reason that it brings to light the minority opinion as well. But then again I guess you are trying to do your part for minorities by calling us out for being racists. Nice job getting a lot accomplished there.
It still stands that you are the owner of a team who is named after a group responsible for the genocide of a people. Keep it up Herr.
Originally posted by felixtovar


The more infamous Hutu genocides you speak of were actually done in Rwanda.

No actually I was talking about the ones pertaining to your boys in Burundi in 1993 where 400,000 Tutsi's were killed.



Felix,

I'm going to be nice and give you a warning. Joebarber went to community college for half a semester, you want NO PART of his intellect.
 
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