Warrior General Games

No one has gotten very specific about why the shuffle is needed for A and BBB levels here, but not needed for AA levels. Roger got the closest, but still didn't quite hit the mark.

For those that weren't paying attention through season 4 thru 8, the EE league structure took on an odd shape. The A tier was created in S4. Some time later, a PARTIAL BBB tier was constructed, BBB1-8. At the end of S7, Bort created BBB9-16, then did promotions and relegation. A large number of teams that were promoted were CPU! In A7 alone we had a dozen or so CPU teams in addition to the two or three rebuild/gut job teams that every league gets. Those CPU teams should never have been promoted. I would argue that promotions to and relegation from the affected A tier should never have happened between season 7 and 8. Unfortunately it happened, and now the lower tiers are paying the price. Continuing to use A7 as my example, 12 CPU teams were relegated to BBB 13 and 14 this season. That means 12 BBB teams got pulled up to into the A tier, which has been around four seasons longer, and they have no chance in hell of being competitive for the next three seasons IMO, until the level 40+ teams all promote out. Who is going to stick around that long? A shuffle for the A and BBB tiers make sense, but I would say only shuffle for BBB 9-16 and A 5-8.

AA, on the other hand, is in much better shape. Are there some teams that probably got promoted up too early? Sure, but the level discrepancy is not near what the teams promoted from BBB are facing. Most of the folks getting promoted to AA have worked hard and faced adversity for a few seasons before getting things hitting on all cylinders. All a reshuffle at this level is going to do is break up a lot of good rivalries. Will there be some teams that get bounced back to A? Sure. It happens all the time. What's more likely is they will experience some growing pains while they catch up to the more advanced AA league, but still post some wins. They will get better over the next season or two, and become more competitive.

AA is fine. Don't shuffle it.

Originally posted by Roger6363
Originally posted by Godzirra

Boo Hoo for you, you finally have 8 freebie games where the team is 21 levels lower than you and you are crying that maybe the league would be reshuffled and you might actually have to play even teams.


Im an idiot and you cant read my post. I will be lucky to go .500 and I do not have 8 gimme games. Hell I dont have 3 gimme games.


Originally posted by Godzirra

Hope that the level disparity is not 21 levels. If so, then I would request that all of AAA get reshuffled so the better AAA teams are in the same league and so on and so on. There really is no reason why this can't be done.


You just dont get it then you would have a team get promoted to Pro that shouldnt.....and teams that are more deserving. In AAA1. What is your answer there shuffle PRO?



Originally posted by Godzirra

The worse thing is Bort would have a little more work to do. Oh no! He would actually have to "earn" all the money he's making. I would think he would want to do something like this. It would mean less people going cpu, less people leaving glb, more people staying to keep paying Bort.

A couple more things you dont get. More people would be pissed if this move happened thus more pissed off customers with the shuffle. Look at this there what have there been 2-3 teams complaining. If teams cared more would post. Most dont even bother cause its obsurd. I was bored one day and posted on it. Also Bort already "earned" his money by creating this site. I am not a fan of many things Bort does but he was genious enough to create GLB so he has already "earned" whatever money he gets from GLB.

Originally posted by Godzirra

Any time a team goes cpu, that means one less team will have to be created thru expansion... which means less flex sold... which means less money for Bort. He should be doing everything possible to keep teams from going cpu so he can get more money. And if he was doing reshuffle to keep teams more even, he wouldn't lose as many teams. And if he didn't lose as many teams, he wouldn't need to reshuffle. Vicious cycle.


Another dumb statement...dude your on a roll. Just cause a team goes CPU doesnt mean that he fills those CPU teams and not expand. This is what created this problem he kept expanding. Also a high percentage of owners sell their teams and get right back on the list to try again. Also do you have any clue how many NOOB's there are begging to get a team? Every season it has been over 1000. Now with the Casual and Pee Wee. Bort doesnt have an issue with people wanting teams.


Dude if you look at EEAA3 and EEAA4 you will see that the issue you are having in your league is not over there. Not sure about EEAA2 but really there arent that many teams that are in your same boat. I do understand your frustrations and would not like to be in your situation but really a shuffle is not good for EEAA.


Roger

Roger, you could not be any more wrong on so many things. And just because you think something... doesn't make it right. Your opinion is just that... an opinion. A shuffle is needed whether you agree or not I don't care. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Originally posted by bighoppa67
No one has gotten very specific about why the shuffle is needed for A and BBB levels here, but not needed for AA levels. Roger got the closest, but still didn't quite hit the mark.

For those that weren't paying attention through season 4 thru 8, the EE league structure took on an odd shape. The A tier was created in S4. Some time later, a PARTIAL BBB tier was constructed, BBB1-8. At the end of S7, Bort created BBB9-16, then did promotions and relegation. A large number of teams that were promoted were CPU! In A7 alone we had a dozen or so CPU teams in addition to the two or three rebuild/gut job teams that every league gets. Those CPU teams should never have been promoted. I would argue that promotions to and relegation from the affected A tier should never have happened between season 7 and 8. Unfortunately it happened, and now the lower tiers are paying the price. Continuing to use A7 as my example, 12 CPU teams were relegated to BBB 13 and 14 this season. That means 12 BBB teams got pulled up to into the A tier, which has been around four seasons longer, and they have no chance in hell of being competitive for the next three seasons IMO, until the level 40+ teams all promote out. Who is going to stick around that long? A shuffle for the A and BBB tiers make sense, but I would say only shuffle for BBB 9-16 and A 5-8.

AA, on the other hand, is in much better shape. Are there some teams that probably got promoted up too early? Sure, but the level discrepancy is not near what the teams promoted from BBB are facing. Most of the folks getting promoted to AA have worked hard and faced adversity for a few seasons before getting things hitting on all cylinders. All a reshuffle at this level is going to do is break up a lot of good rivalries. Will there be some teams that get bounced back to A? Sure. It happens all the time. What's more likely is they will experience some growing pains while they catch up to the more advanced AA league, but still post some wins. They will get better over the next season or two, and become more competitive.

AA is fine. Don't shuffle it.

AA is NOT fine. And just because you and some existing teams that get to beat up on all us lvl 29's think so.. doesn't make it true. Sure the league is perfect... for those lvl 40+ teams that is. But if any of them could think of anyone other than themselves, they could see the obvious.

I do not think anything is fine when you have 8 lvl 29's going against 8 lvl 40-50 in the same conference.

Period! Nothing more to read into than that. Nothing more to even think of than that. Nothing more to consider. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Done! No long winded posts needed. Nothing. It takes only 1 sentance to explain for the dimwitted.

I'll say it again...

I do not think anything is fine when you have 8 lvl 29's going against 8 lvl 40-50 in the same conference.

Originally posted by Godzirra

AA is NOT fine. And just because you and some existing teams that get to beat up on all us lvl 29's think so.. doesn't make it true. Sure the league is perfect... for those lvl 40+ teams that is. But if any of them could think of anyone other than themselves, they could see the obvious.

I do not think anything is fine when you have 8 lvl 29's going against 8 lvl 40-50 in the same conference.

Period! Nothing more to read into than that. Nothing more to even think of than that. Nothing more to consider. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Done!

So your answer is to put all the level 29s in their own corner? So let's extrapolate that out for a few seasons. Assuming Bort shuffles and turns AA4 into a 32 capped league with all others uncapped, your team wins out and gets promoted to AAA. Now you're, what, 40 tops? and facing level 56+ teams in AAA. Are you going to demand a shuffle of AAA when you get there as well?

Be specific with what you are advocating. In order to be 'fair' they would have to perform a horizontal shuffle as well, which SHOULD end with you back down in the A tier. Relegation through shuffle or relegation through league play. Which would you prefer? Frankly, I'm not looking to beat up on a bunch of level 29 teams. I just spent a season in a league that was half gut-jobs, rebuilds, and CPUs. It was the most boring season I've ever had in GLB.

Making a 32 capped AA league is not the answer. Try again.

Roger > Godzirra

Originally posted by dan rules
Roger > Godzirra


Morons>dan rules

Originally posted by bighoppa67
Originally posted by Godzirra


AA is NOT fine. And just because you and some existing teams that get to beat up on all us lvl 29's think so.. doesn't make it true. Sure the league is perfect... for those lvl 40+ teams that is. But if any of them could think of anyone other than themselves, they could see the obvious.

I do not think anything is fine when you have 8 lvl 29's going against 8 lvl 40-50 in the same conference.

Period! Nothing more to read into than that. Nothing more to even think of than that. Nothing more to consider. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Done!

So your answer is to put all the level 29s in their own corner? So let's extrapolate that out for a few seasons. Assuming Bort shuffles and turns AA4 into a 32 capped league with all others uncapped, your team wins out and gets promoted to AAA. Now you're, what, 40 tops? and facing level 56+ teams in AAA. Are you going to demand a shuffle of AAA when you get there as well?

Be specific with what you are advocating. In order to be 'fair' they would have to perform a horizontal shuffle as well, which SHOULD end with you back down in the A tier. Relegation through shuffle or relegation through league play. Which would you prefer? Frankly, I'm not looking to beat up on a bunch of level 29 teams. I just spent a season in a league that was half gut-jobs, rebuilds, and CPUs. It was the most boring season I've ever had in GLB.

Making a 32 capped AA league is not the answer. Try again.

No my answer is to shuffle every league level... A's by themselves , AA's by themselves, AAA's by themselves. NOT moving teams up or down but laterally.

So in EEA you have a total of 256 teams now. Shuffle so the best 32 are in #1, next 32 are in #2, and so on.

Then go to EEAA and you have 128 teams. Do the same thing... move the best 32 into #1, and so on.

Rinse and repeat.

Then you would have the closest you could get. Sure, us newly promoted teams would still be outleveled... but it may be by 10 levels instead of 21.

You see... this has nothing to do with trying to get a "free ride" This has to do with throwing teams that are about 29 with teams that are only 5-10 levels higher instead of 21 levels. How is that looking for an easy way out as some jackass said before? It isn't.

The only argument one would make is if they didn't want to actually have to play teams closer to themself and instead want to play teams 21 levels lower so their players can stat-whore. Why wouldn't the level 40-50 teams want to play closer competition? I don't get it. Is it fun to beat up on 8 teams each season that are 21 levels lower?

They'll need to put an asterisk on all the stats this season as they will all be irrelevant. They will mean nothing since they will be equivalent to playing CPU's. We are not even going to gameplan. No sense in it. I will not even look at the game replays. This coming season is a complete waste.

And the worst part is a few things...

1. Last season was already a waste as there was a team 21 levels higher in our conference. So 1 wasted season right there
2. This season will be a waste as there are many teams 21 levels higher.
3. We will probably win a couple game as some dumbasses will probably go CPU, thus keeping us from being demoted... so next season will be a waste too.

So there will be 3 (at least) wasted seasons for us. I wonder if any of you would be complaining also, if you knew the next 3 seasons were a waste and you have no shot at a title or even individual awards.

Course our punter might be able to get an award. I suppose that should be good enough though huh?

Originally posted by bighoppa67
Originally posted by Godzirra


AA is NOT fine. And just because you and some existing teams that get to beat up on all us lvl 29's think so.. doesn't make it true. Sure the league is perfect... for those lvl 40+ teams that is. But if any of them could think of anyone other than themselves, they could see the obvious.

I do not think anything is fine when you have 8 lvl 29's going against 8 lvl 40-50 in the same conference.

Period! Nothing more to read into than that. Nothing more to even think of than that. Nothing more to consider. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Done!

So your answer is to put all the level 29s in their own corner? So let's extrapolate that out for a few seasons. Assuming Bort shuffles and turns AA4 into a 32 capped league with all others uncapped, your team wins out and gets promoted to AAA. Now you're, what, 40 tops? and facing level 56+ teams in AAA. Are you going to demand a shuffle of AAA when you get there as well?

Be specific with what you are advocating. In order to be 'fair' they would have to perform a horizontal shuffle as well, which SHOULD end with you back down in the A tier. Relegation through shuffle or relegation through league play. Which would you prefer? Frankly, I'm not looking to beat up on a bunch of level 29 teams. I just spent a season in a league that was half gut-jobs, rebuilds, and CPUs. It was the most boring season I've ever had in GLB.

Making a 32 capped AA league is not the answer. Try again.

And I didn't say making a 32 capped league. So if you are going to quote me, do it fucking right. Don't put words in my mouth.

I am specific in what I propose. Pay attention.

How is this season going to be any different than last season for you against guts, cpu's? You are going to have the same results. 8 new teams that will get their ass kicked every game. Ya... big fucking difference. The only difference is we don't have the letters C P and U next to our name. But we'll have the same results. Wake up!

I bet you are looking to beat up on 29's... but even if you are not looking to... you are going have that result. Oh and I bet that's really going to bother you too. Ya, right!

Suck it up and recruit. If you shuffle, you're pissing off half the teams, if you don't shuffle you're pissing off half the teams. You're asking people to think of other teams when you're clearly not thinking about the top 8 teams. A reshuffle destroys a lot of awesome rivalries I look forward to, as I'm sure many teams at my level agree with.

I don't give a fuck if I potentially could piss off half the teams as half are ALREADY PISSED OFF. But you are not thinking of them. We would ALL benefit from teams being closer levels. And the only ones against that would be stat-whores.

And this has nothing to do with recruiting. Sure we could hire and fire players every season. We agents all got together before hand and decided to make this team. We wanted to stay together and have a little loyalty. Whatever happened to the announcement from Bort talking about increased fame for players that stay on a team longer??? This is contradictory don't you think?

Does he want players to stay on teams, or does he want teams to hire and fire everybody every season?

And rivalries are made and broken every season when some teams get promoted and others don't. If you all were not 21 levels above us... maybe you could start rivalries with us. So instead of creating rivalries... this disparity for the coming season has decreased rivalries. Think about it. Instead of 16 equal teams that could create rivalries with, now you have 8.

Originally posted by Godzirra
Originally posted by bighoppa67

Originally posted by Godzirra



AA is NOT fine. And just because you and some existing teams that get to beat up on all us lvl 29's think so.. doesn't make it true. Sure the league is perfect... for those lvl 40+ teams that is. But if any of them could think of anyone other than themselves, they could see the obvious.

I do not think anything is fine when you have 8 lvl 29's going against 8 lvl 40-50 in the same conference.

Period! Nothing more to read into than that. Nothing more to even think of than that. Nothing more to consider. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Done!

So your answer is to put all the level 29s in their own corner? So let's extrapolate that out for a few seasons. Assuming Bort shuffles and turns AA4 into a 32 capped league with all others uncapped, your team wins out and gets promoted to AAA. Now you're, what, 40 tops? and facing level 56+ teams in AAA. Are you going to demand a shuffle of AAA when you get there as well?

Be specific with what you are advocating. In order to be 'fair' they would have to perform a horizontal shuffle as well, which SHOULD end with you back down in the A tier. Relegation through shuffle or relegation through league play. Which would you prefer? Frankly, I'm not looking to beat up on a bunch of level 29 teams. I just spent a season in a league that was half gut-jobs, rebuilds, and CPUs. It was the most boring season I've ever had in GLB.

Making a 32 capped AA league is not the answer. Try again.

And I didn't say making a 32 capped league. So if you are going to quote me, do it fucking right. Don't put words in my mouth.

I am specific in what I propose. Pay attention.

How is this season going to be any different than last season for you against guts, cpu's? You are going to have the same results. 8 new teams that will get their ass kicked every game. Ya... big fucking difference. The only difference is we don't have the letters C P and U next to our name. But we'll have the same results. Wake up!

I bet you are looking to beat up on 29's... but even if you are not looking to... you are going have that result. Oh and I bet that's really going to bother you too. Ya, right!

You were not specific anywhere else in this thread right up until the post before the one I just quoted.

So! Having now had you go on record, how is what you are proposing any difeerent than what I just said? Your league has 8 teams that all average out to level 29. Again, for argument's sake, let's assume that there are 8 teams in each AA league that have an average level of 29. Now you have 32 teams that could be shuffled into their own league for even competition.
So they AA league structure would look something like this:
AA1: 50s
AA2: 50s
AA3: 40s
AA4: 30s

Teams promoted from AA4 will not be competitive with teams promoted from AA3 when you get promoted to AAA2, and teams from AAA2 will be less likely to be competitive with teams promoted from AAA1 when they all make Pro.

Ahh, it's like arguing with a wall....never mind.

Sort of off-topic, but how did your league end up with so many teams in the 29 range? Did all of A1&2 gut and reroll at the same time? How did you end up in this situation, anyway?

Originally posted by bighoppa67


You were not specific anywhere else in this thread right up until the post before the one I just quoted.

So! Having now had you go on record, how is what you are proposing any difeerent than what I just said? Your league has 8 teams that all average out to level 29. Again, for argument's sake, let's assume that there are 8 teams in each AA league that have an average level of 29. Now you have 32 teams that could be shuffled into their own league for even competition.
So they AA league structure would look something like this:
AA1: 50s
AA2: 50s
AA3: 40s
AA4: 30s

Teams promoted from AA4 will not be competitive with teams promoted from AA3 when you get promoted to AAA2, and teams from AAA2 will be less likely to be competitive with teams promoted from AAA1 when they all make Pro.

I like this possibility but we would have to agree that teams in AA4 would not get promoted to AAA the following season. We would need some type of system that would see the majority of promotions coming from AA1 and a few from AA2. The AA3's and AA4's should be promoted horizontally to AA1 or AA2 at the end of the season, hence it would require a shuffle every year. Might be worthwhile for keeping like teams together level-wise but it would not help keep rivals together.

29 is the lvl you come to after 2 seasons. We are all only 2 seasons old. We got cap13 teams in a new league our first season. Started our second around 24ish... finished around 29. I didn't look ate every team but I'm sure we all are 2 seasons old and all got our teams 2 seasons ago when they created EEBBB league. I think there were just too many idiot owners in the higher leagues that went cpu, so us teams only 2 seasons old have got pushed up. But we were not having just the winners pushed up... I think 4 teams from EEBBB1 alpha lone got moved up the first season... then I think this season we had 4 from EEA1 alpha alone get pushed. And 3 of the 4 were the same teams that got pushed the first time.

Originally posted by Xaviers Crown
Originally posted by bighoppa67



You were not specific anywhere else in this thread right up until the post before the one I just quoted.

So! Having now had you go on record, how is what you are proposing any difeerent than what I just said? Your league has 8 teams that all average out to level 29. Again, for argument's sake, let's assume that there are 8 teams in each AA league that have an average level of 29. Now you have 32 teams that could be shuffled into their own league for even competition.
So they AA league structure would look something like this:
AA1: 50s
AA2: 50s
AA3: 40s
AA4: 30s

Teams promoted from AA4 will not be competitive with teams promoted from AA3 when you get promoted to AAA2, and teams from AAA2 will be less likely to be competitive with teams promoted from AAA1 when they all make Pro.

I like this possibility but we would have to agree that teams in AA4 would not get promoted to AAA the following season. We would need some type of system that would see the majority of promotions coming from AA1 and a few from AA2. The AA3's and AA4's should be promoted horizontally to AA1 or AA2 at the end of the season, hence it would require a shuffle every year. Might be worthwhile for keeping like teams together level-wise but it would not help keep rivals together.

And if there is still a disparity at the next level, you reshuffle again after this season. The teams promoted will still be outleveled as bighoppa says... it just won't be 21 levels. And that may actually make it semi enjoyable for us 29lvl teams. So instead of us losing 255-0 we will only be losing 100-14. And if it's even a slight bit better, you may lose less teams to cpu-ville. Right Mith?

Ok for the record big poppa and roger are in a league where damn near every team are within 10 levels of each other the league will be cimpetitive.

The problem is in AA1 and AA2. A shuffle will not work for the higher levels at all.

It is unfortunate for those level 29 teams. Maybe we should shuffle all the level 29 teams and spread them out among all of AA and give them a chance at demotion.

I think the idea of shuffling promoted teams might be something to look at.

Really godzilla stop saying myself and big poppa want to beat up on level 29's cause EEA3 and EEAA4 aren't broke.

Oh yeah why do we have to be dumbasses cause we don't agree with your opinion.

The fact is this problem effects fewer teams than a league wide shuffle would.

Again I do understand why your pissed just what you propose fixes nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Roger