Warrior General Games

Originally posted by RisingChaos
Personally, I'm content to keep training SPD / STA the rest of my Center's career. If you softcap everything, training at all becomes rather pointless (beyond converting TP to Tokens). I'd rather spend my level-up SP on more SA's and continue to leave something for training to efficiently boost..

keep in mind that in terms of SP value, training attributes from 35-48 is the least efficient level to train. you get more value by soft capping and then training. it will take longer to train up an attribute point, but it is worth 2 SP. (But train up to just under 100% on the bar before you add SPs, so once you cap it you can just train once for another attribute point worth 2 SP.)

Based on the value of attribute gain in SP

Most Valuable Training -->

Any skill between 8-25
Any skill over 60
Any skill between 26-30
Any skill between 49-55
Any skill between 31-37
Any Skill between 56-60
Any Skill between 38-48.07

--> Least Valuable Training

Originally posted by Octowned
- I'd never spend 3:1 on agility to 68. Just because your opponent has 100 agility doesn't mean you need 100 agility. He has to get around you, you're a beast with 120 strength and 80 blocking, I think that means 65 agility is fine

- I'd spend stamina, but as mentioned only after I trained it to above 30. It will greatly improve 4th quarter performance. If your team has multiple good centers... well then, leave stamina lower

There is something to be said about capping stamina, playing 60+ plays, and ending with 75 energy. That was my OT today, a good feeling to know he can handle a full game and not get worn down.

everything in this is good, except as previously stated I wouldn't take agi to 3:1. Get it there early and let it autolevel higher imo

post before me is important too. Perma training something just because you don't want to add points is bad. You want to train something because if gives you the most value to train and is useful.

Point taken, I see the error in my ways, though the question remains whether it's worth spending those ~15 SP in the attribute (namely, SPD / STA) over dumping them into more SA's. If so, do you just go back to training STR / BLK or what? Any remotely viable OL build is going to have well over 60 in STR and BLK, at least to 5:1 due to automatic level gains even if the person didn't invest in SP to that point, it would seem to make sense to just go back to training them after you soft cap everything else (and double-cap AGI).

Once you get past the basic template, the finer points are up to where an agent wishes to take his player and the team(s) he plays for (and against). The "question" may not have a concrete answer.

the idea is that if you want stamina at 40 and agility at 60, you should train stamina to ~32 then spend 8 points there. In the meantime, you should train agility from 48 to 52, saving you those 8 SP back, then spend to 60. But the value from 48 to 52 is better (faster) than 32 to 40.

the idea that you should train something because it has good value is false. value is only value if you were willing to spend those points! training punting at 80 isn't like getting 11:1, lol. you could have just put a point in it waaaay back when you stopped spending at 68. it's like getting 4:1 (or wherever you stopped).

anyway a bit of a digression there. centers have great training options late in career. one would be to cap confidence and vision, then train them from 48 together.

By level 40, theres no reason why you couldnt have both Strength and Blocking 10:1 capped, and Agility at 68. And as a Center, your goal is basically to have those 3 as high as possible.

Originally posted by Dee
By level 40, theres no reason why you couldnt have both Strength and Blocking 10:1 capped, and Agility at 68. And as a Center, your goal is basically to have those 3 as high as possible.

Untill a defender pass by my center im not spending any SP on agi.

Hate to bump an aging thread but I'm still lost on which route to take. At level 26, his strength is at 6-1 and blocking is at 5-1. After double capping agility, I'm left scratching on if double capping vision is the way to go. I'll like to continue to train with the speed + stamina combo at least until my next level up, which won't be for a few more games.

You get by for a very long time with first capped vision, but you'll want it second capped eventually. Agility to 68 and speed to 61 would take precedent over vision to 61.

since your speed is so low i would just keep training it while saving/putting SP in other areas. i dont know how much vision will help you since Cs usually always have a DT or NT to block and arent usually in space against LBs or are responsible for a blitzer. i know it helps in blocking since it helps in determining what the DT is going to do but to what degree i dont know; it could be like blocking to shed blocks or actually useful.

I'm still not convinced a C needs 68 agility. I guess they don't have a whole lot else to do, but I'd probably take speed to 60 before agility to 68.

My C did..

60 agi, 60 vis, and now I'll work on 60 spd. Agi has gained above 64, so I'm happy with that.

I'm not sure if the 60 vis was necessary, but I did it because I needed more time to train speed (I'm STILL training it up at level 39, only at 26 now) anyway

1.
If you love to see your guy standing like a brick, don't care about agility and speed. If you really care about your guy doing well: count all those sacks, hurries and early tackles on run plays against your center if another blocker has to take over YOUR blocking assignment.

You might have noticed the NT or DT slipping away with ease and causing the guards (or blocking RBs) to head towards him to make up for YOUR inability to occupy the guy. Of course, those blockers are then unable to pick up the guy they should. That's failure - just as much as your center allowed the sack personally.

2.
Low stamina is the main reason for failing. Most guys are so concerned about 120 or 125 strength - but don't realize that because of low in-game energy they are actually never ever playing that 120 or 125.

Bort once mentioned, that a "really tired" (= 10 energy) player gets a 50% penalty to all his attributes. So at 78 energy, you're playing with a 12 % penalty - which makes your 120 strength appear like 106. Think about those 14 points you lost there.

3.
Automatic level gains for agility are +0.11 (lv. 30-38) and +0.08 (lv. 39+). So "letting it grow" will raise agility by spectacular +1.95 - by 20 level ups. So much about getting it from into the "mid 60s" by automatic level gains...

I capped agility to 60 well before level 20. At the perfect decimal, you can raise it all the way to ~61.4. Then fill-bar to 62.4. Then gain to around 65. Sounds like mid 60s to me

I think 65 agility combined with 55-60 speed is ample for a C to "move around" in protection and in the run blocking game, even if they are going against NTs with higher in each.

From what I've seen of my own Center (and his team) blocking the past couple seasons...

I've seen a few missed plays here and there with 50's Vision O-Linemen that presumably would have been made had they higher Vision, so now I'm also on the bandwagon to second-cap Vision. It helps pick up middle LB blitzes on passes or to pick up outside tacklers on inside runs, if your C passes off the DT to a Guard and gets free.

I was a bit late to second-cap Agi but it's still at 64 due to my AEQ coming with +2 Agi. From what I've seen, it's fine for run blocking but a DT with Agi in the 90's can start getting around my guy in pass protection enough that it worries me. The Center is always supported by at least one Guard but it's been close a couple times and I'd prefer that not happen, you know? Three-capping Agility might not be absolutely necessary but it sounds like a good idea these days.

I have seen no evidence that Speed is a big deal for the interior line. I only started training Spd/Sta last season, so my C was only in the teens and 20's until recently (now 31) and he's never had a problem getting in front of a DT for the block. Agility seems like it does virtually all of the work at the short distances the OL maneuvers. However, as a backup who also plays ST, I sorely wish I had capped Speed there. If not playing ST, I personally wouldn't even soft-cap Speed at the first level.

I would take Agility to the 68 cap. What else are you going to spend your SP on? That way you'll rarely find yourself badly outmatched against any kind of DT/NT. Otherwise you'll find that you find yourself not really wanting to put your SP into anything at higher levels.

Originally posted by Blamo
I would take Agility to the 68 cap. What else are you going to spend your SP on?

True, but the point: is it really needed to be effect? Or is it just overkill?

I have watched some game film on my center and he seems to act like he has no idea what he is doing on some plays(who to pick up on blitzes and pass rushes, etc).

I guess the question remains, what's more beneficial for not getting beat and fooled: 61 vision or 68 agility?