Warrior General Games

For perspective....

Parr vs. Guts:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=214311
http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=214344
http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=214350

37 receptions, 1521.5 yards, 28 TD's in 3 games

vs. non-Guts:

64 receptions, 1319.5 yards, 8 TD's in 13 games

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Sneeze vs. Guts:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=214312
http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=214345
http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=214351

31 receptions, 488 yards, 9 TD's in 3 games

vs. non-Guts:

106 receptions, 1645 yards, 16 TD's in 13 games

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And that is why I'll take Sneeze over Parr if I have to choose.

Originally posted by SCACE


And that is why I'll take Sneeze over Parr if I have to choose.

Isn't that a tired line of reasoning tho Scace? I respect your opinion but every time I see it debated the more logical argument seems to be that we all play the same amount of gutted teams and at the end of the season cumulative totals are a pretty fair estimate of value to an offense especially in this case with the totals being so heavily weighted in favor of Parr.

Originally posted by Kira
Originally posted by albear

Originally posted by SCACE


If we really plan on doing this, we need a voting structure (maybe 1 vote per team)

And that vote has to be used on someone on another team, maybe?

How about as long as it's not their own player it's ok

I'm okay with this.

Originally posted by badkarma
Originally posted by SCACE



And that is why I'll take Sneeze over Parr if I have to choose.

Isn't that a tired line of reasoning tho Scace? I respect your opinion but every time I see it debated the more logical argument seems to be that we all play the same amount of gutted teams and at the end of the season cumulative totals are a pretty fair estimate of value to an offense especially in this case with the totals being so heavily weighted in favor of Parr.

How is that a tired argument? Would you rather have a consistent threat game-to-game or a player that shows up huge for 3-games in a 16-game season but doesn't really give you those same results consistently in the game that actually mean something?

I think you can make a very strong argument for Parr, and I am just presenting my argument for Sneeze. I have zero invested here as I'm not associated with either team, nor do I really know the agents of either player that well.

If you need to put down my argument in an effort to make your own, that really weakens your own argument tbh.

There's just too many factors to tell either way guys.

Hypothetical example, using the current situation:

Player A & Player B, both HB's let's say, play the same 15 teams. 5 are guts, 5 are even matches, 5 the teams are outmatched.

Player A:

vs. gutted teams: 1750 yards, 25 TD's
vs. even teams: 400 yards, 5 TD's
vs. tough teams: 250 yards, 0 TD's

Total: 2400 yards, 30 TD's

Player B:

vs. gutted teams: 1000 yards, 10 TD's
vs. even teams: 600 yards, 7 TD's
vs. tough teams: 400 yards, 5 TD's

Total: 2000 yards, 22 TD's

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Who is the better player? The guy with more overall stats, or the player that provided a pretty consistent punch all the way through the season?

Not saying anyone has to agree with me - I personally would rather have the consistent threat.

Originally posted by SCACE


If you need to put down my argument in an effort to make your own, that really weakens your own argument tbh.

For a guy who probably posts as much as anyone in Opro I would think you would have thicker skin, the tired argument was in reference to the fact that this has been discussed ad nauseum about performance against gutted teams and at least in my opinion totals are more relevant than split stats against guts when we all play the same opponents over a 16 game season. Plus I wouldnt say Parr has been anything other than consistent all year long, he just excelled against gutted teams who couldn't cover him.

If you dont feel like discussing I am happy to move on.

Originally posted by badkarma
Originally posted by SCACE



If you need to put down my argument in an effort to make your own, that really weakens your own argument tbh.

For a guy who probably posts as much as anyone in Opro I would think you would have thicker skin, the tired argument was in reference to the fact that this has been discussed ad nauseum about performance against gutted teams and at least in my opinion totals are more relevant than split stats against guts when we all play the same opponents over a 16 game season. Plus I wouldnt say Parr has been anything other than consistent all year long, he just excelled against gutted teams who couldn't cover him.

If you dont feel like discussing I am happy to move on.

My skin is just fine thanks Not sure how my post came across as me not having thick skin...if anything I misinterpreted what you were saying was a tired argument.

There are two schools of though, of course.

1. Include all games and use overall stats to make a choice.
2. Remove games against guts and see how the players stack up after those games are removed.

I personally prefer option #2, as when you face off with a gutted team, you can run whatever gameplan you want to run up the score. This leads to inflated stats for players and some teams will do it just to win awards for the players. I have no issue with that, but in a league vote for a top player at a position, I don't want to include those games because of those reasons.

I have no issue discussing it either, but I'm not sure how much there is to discuss, tbh.

Throw out the games vs. Gutted teams, that's a no brainier.

Crusher’s Vote.
D-MVP vote goes to Adam Avalanche.
Offensive MVP goes to Gordon James for not having another record breaking season, all haul Bort for taming the savage beast.

This may be the first season in the history of GLB that "His Jamesness” is not up for defensive MVP.

Parr vs. non-Guts:

64 receptions, 1319.5 yards, 8 TD's in 13 games

Per Game: 5 receptions, 102 yards, 20.4 YPR, 0.62 TD

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Sneeze vs. non-Guts:

106 receptions, 1645 yards, 16 TD's in 13 games

Per Game: 8 receptions, 127 yards, 15.9 YPR, 1.23 TD

ya know SCACE, some people think that all stats are meaningless in a loss since...well...you lost so nobody really cares if you caught 100 touchdowns because you couldn't lead your team to victory. I'd be very curious to see the stats of both in wins vrs. non-gutted teams, but I don't expect anyone to do the work, I know I'm not gonna. Just sayin, there's so many factors it's extremely hard to tell.

I hope you realize I'm not saying Parr had a bad season -- he had an amazing season. It is unfortunate, in my books, that so much of his production came vs. gutted teams, at least one of the games that looks like an obvious attempt to inflate stats.

When we're talking about top players in a league, we're going to be splitting hairs a lot of the time and everyone will have their own opinion and can make a case for numerous players. Noone is wrong, its just opinion.

Originally posted by Kira
ya know SCACE, some people think that all stats are meaningless in a loss since...well...you lost so nobody really cares if you caught 100 touchdowns because you couldn't lead your team to victory. I'd be very curious to see the stats of both in wins vrs. non-gutted teams, but I don't expect anyone to do the work, I know I'm not gonna. Just sayin, there's so many factors it's extremely hard to tell.

I've got a bit of time, shouldn't be that hard.

anyone mentioned should feel so honored they don't care about people talking about their cons

Parr vs. non-Guts (wins):

25 receptions, 596.5 yards, 5 TD's in 5 games

Per Game: 5 receptions, 119.3 yards, 23.86 YPR, 1 TD

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Sneeze vs. non-Guts (wins):

40 receptions, 606.5 yards, 7 TD's in 4 games

Per Game: 10 receptions, 151.6 yards, 15.16 YPR, 1.75 TD