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My girlfriend's dad basically didn't even go to college and he makes six figures. \m/

Originally posted by RTJakarta
My girlfriend's dad basically didn't even go to college and he makes six figures. \m/

There's no correlation of education in the Fortune 500 business owners (meaning it's not like they all went to college or even finished high school or anything... Bill Gates didn't have a college degree when he started Windows [dunno if he got one later]).

Originally posted by soapbox
Originally posted by RTJakarta

My girlfriend's dad basically didn't even go to college and he makes six figures. \m/

There's no correlation of education in the Fortune 500 business owners (meaning it's not like they all went to college or even finished high school or anything... Bill Gates didn't have a college degree when he started Windows [dunno if he got one later]).

My point: college can very well be overrated in some cases.

Originally posted by RTJakarta
Originally posted by soapbox

Originally posted by RTJakarta


My girlfriend's dad basically didn't even go to college and he makes six figures. \m/

There's no correlation of education in the Fortune 500 business owners (meaning it's not like they all went to college or even finished high school or anything... Bill Gates didn't have a college degree when he started Windows [dunno if he got one later]).

My point: college can very well be overrated in some cases.

My point: Your point is completely valid and deserves reinforcement.

Also: Tits are always good.

Originally posted by RTJakarta
Originally posted by soapbox

Originally posted by RTJakarta


My girlfriend's dad basically didn't even go to college and he makes six figures. \m/

There's no correlation of education in the Fortune 500 business owners (meaning it's not like they all went to college or even finished high school or anything... Bill Gates didn't have a college degree when he started Windows [dunno if he got one later]).

My point: college can very well be overrated in some cases.

"Overrated" would be an incorrect term. College exponentially increases your chances of achieving a "successful" career. There are people that have a great work ethic and end up making great money, but within the next generation or so you will not find many super successful non-college graduates.

Also, Gates is a horrible example because he found he didn't even need Harvard. You will always have a few of these special people.

Edit: Please excuse any errors. The iPhone can can be tricky.

Originally posted by Lorenzo Express
Originally posted by RTJakarta

Originally posted by soapbox


Originally posted by RTJakarta



My girlfriend's dad basically didn't even go to college and he makes six figures. \m/

There's no correlation of education in the Fortune 500 business owners (meaning it's not like they all went to college or even finished high school or anything... Bill Gates didn't have a college degree when he started Windows [dunno if he got one later]).

My point: college can very well be overrated in some cases.

"Overrated" would be an incorrect term. College exponentially increases your chances of achieving a "successful" career. There are people that have a great work ethic and end up making great money, but within the next generation or so you will not find many super successful non-college graduates.

Also, Gates is a horrible example because he found he didn't even need Harvard. You will always have a few of these special people.

Edit: Please excuse any errors. The iPhone can can be tricky.

Gates went to MIT, not Harvard. The point was that he didn't need a degree. No one NEEDS a degree except doctors and lawyers. The problem is most people lack the balls to be entrepreneurs

And the whole prediction for the next gen and stuff... I doubt that's true. There will always be people who are just absolutely right for owning their own businesses and succeeding and there's no reason (other than pessimism towards the future) to believe otherwise.

Originally posted by soapbox
Originally posted by Lorenzo Express

Originally posted by RTJakarta


Originally posted by soapbox



Originally posted by RTJakarta




My girlfriend's dad basically didn't even go to college and he makes six figures. \m/

There's no correlation of education in the Fortune 500 business owners (meaning it's not like they all went to college or even finished high school or anything... Bill Gates didn't have a college degree when he started Windows [dunno if he got one later]).

My point: college can very well be overrated in some cases.

"Overrated" would be an incorrect term. College exponentially increases your chances of achieving a "successful" career. There are people that have a great work ethic and end up making great money, but within the next generation or so you will not find many super successful non-college graduates.

Also, Gates is a horrible example because he found he didn't even need Harvard. You will always have a few of these special people.

Edit: Please excuse any errors. The iPhone can can be tricky.

Gates went to MIT, not Harvard. The point was that he didn't need a degree. No one NEEDS a degree except doctors and lawyers. The problem is most people lack the balls to be entrepreneurs

And the whole prediction for the next gen and stuff... I doubt that's true. There will always be people who are just absolutely right for owning their own businesses and succeeding and there's no reason (other than pessimism towards the future) to believe otherwise.

College graduation doesnt mean your smart, BUT if you have a college education it will give you more opportunities.

Also how many of you learned to read, write, do math, etc WITHOUT the help of a teacher?

That is my point.

Keep in mind, I am not and dont want to be a teacher, but recognize their importance.
Just like I dont want to be a firefighter, and odds are my house wont catch on fire, put do recognize their importance.

Originally posted by mikelj
Originally posted by soapbox

Originally posted by Lorenzo Express


Originally posted by RTJakarta



Originally posted by soapbox




Originally posted by RTJakarta





My girlfriend's dad basically didn't even go to college and he makes six figures. \m/

There's no correlation of education in the Fortune 500 business owners (meaning it's not like they all went to college or even finished high school or anything... Bill Gates didn't have a college degree when he started Windows [dunno if he got one later]).

My point: college can very well be overrated in some cases.

"Overrated" would be an incorrect term. College exponentially increases your chances of achieving a "successful" career. There are people that have a great work ethic and end up making great money, but within the next generation or so you will not find many super successful non-college graduates.

Also, Gates is a horrible example because he found he didn't even need Harvard. You will always have a few of these special people.

Edit: Please excuse any errors. The iPhone can can be tricky.

Gates went to MIT, not Harvard. The point was that he didn't need a degree. No one NEEDS a degree except doctors and lawyers. The problem is most people lack the balls to be entrepreneurs

And the whole prediction for the next gen and stuff... I doubt that's true. There will always be people who are just absolutely right for owning their own businesses and succeeding and there's no reason (other than pessimism towards the future) to believe otherwise.

College graduation doesnt mean your smart, BUT if you have a college education it will give you more opportunities.

Also how many of you learned to read, write, do math, etc WITHOUT the help of a teacher?

That is my point.

Keep in mind, I am not and dont want to be a teacher, but recognize their importance.
Just like I dont want to be a firefighter, and odds are my house wont catch on fire, put do recognize their importance.

I'm currently teaching myself Organic Chemistry with a textbook... don't find it particularly hard (considering how hard the course is supposed to be).

I think an effective teacher is probably one of the most important professions as well. I'm just saying that I think it's a systemic problem.

And yeah, it might open up a few new opportunities, but a college education is not a necessary thing if you are the right person. In our society, we're taught to not take risks though, so of course there are fewer of "those" people.

Originally posted by mikelj
Also how many of you learned to read, write, do math, etc WITHOUT the help of a teacher?

Sadly, I honestly benefited from very few "professional" teachers. My parents taught me to read much earlier than any school, math at about 5 grade levels ahead of where the education system chose to teach it, and I read a lot on my own to learn beyond that. My personal experience was that 80-90% of schoolteachers were mere babysitters who lack both dedication and in-depth academic knowledge. In many cases they didn't even understand the subject material they were teaching to what I would consider an undergrad level of knowledge.

In my daughter's case, I've been more impressed in that I'd say close to 40% of her teachers actually take pride in educating children and are competent at what they do. Maybe things are improving or maybe it's just the result of living in better school districts.

The industry has a terrible reputation because of the dominant union (NEA) which has fought for too long to keep standards low and job protection high, at the expense of pride in the profession and the ability to attract motivated talent to the career field. Maybe if fewer teachers lobbied to eliminate qualification standards then the rest of the public would hold them in higher regard.

I agree that teaching is a terribly important profession to any community's future. Unfortunately I think our public education system is bankrupt. It's hard to justify handing more money to existing administrators overseeing a system bereft of qualified and hardworking - let alone inspiring - leadership. That's why it will be an uphill battle to improve the institution as a whole. I think the place to start is establishing effective standards and demanding measurable improvement... an approach which is anathema in the NEA's eyes.

Sorry soapbox, now you can have back your... er... soapbox.

Originally posted by Painmaker
Originally posted by mikelj

Also how many of you learned to read, write, do math, etc WITHOUT the help of a teacher?

Sadly, I honestly benefited from very few "professional" teachers. My parents taught me to read much earlier than any school, math at about 5 grade levels ahead of where the education system chose to teach it, and I read a lot on my own to learn beyond that. My personal experience was that 80-90% of schoolteachers are mere babysitters who lack both dedication and in-depth academic knowledge. In many cases they didn't even understand the subject material they were teaching to what I would consider an undergrad level of knowledge.

In my daughter's case, I've been more impressed in that I'd say close to 40% of her teachers actually take pride in educating children and are competent at what they do. Maybe things are improving or maybe it's just the result of living in better school districts.

The industry has a terrible reputation because of the dominant union (NEA) which has fought for too long to keep standards low and job protection high, at the expense of pride in the profession and the ability to attract motivated talent to the career field. Maybe if fewer teachers lobbied to eliminate qualification standards then the rest of the public would hold them in higher regard.

I agree that teaching is a terribly important profession to any community's future. Unfortunately I think our public education system is bankrupt. It's hard to justify handing more money to existing administrators overseeing a system bereft of qualified and hardworking - let alone inspiring - leadership. That's why it will be an uphill battle to improve the institution as a whole. I think the place to start is establishing effective standards and demanding measurable improvement... an approach which is anathema in the NEA's eyes.

Sorry soapbox, now you can have back your... er... soapbox.

Exactly... it's a systemic problem and needs to be restructured from the ground up.

I certainly agree that, in k-6, it was more like a babysitting center, but the problem was that even some of the stuff my teachers were saying was just flat out WRONG (my 5th grade teacher went on a rant about how you couldn't sue the government! And she had the balls to tell me that I only deserved a B [or its equivalent in k-6 grades] for MY knowledge of history!).

I think one of the biggest problems in the system is that its "energy" is so powerful that even the most apt and most qualified teachers generally burn out and become cynical and either retire or refrain from actually teaching (I had 5 or 6 of these in high school). It's a vicious circle because the kids dislike school because it's boring, and the teachers then don't care to make things interesting for the students... so we all just go through the motions and waste hundreds of hours of time in the process. And again, I attended a public school system that is consistently ranked #1 or #2 in the country with a $2 bil budget and the top ranked public highschool in the country (ofc I didn't attend that high school, but the one I did go to was top 100, forgot the rank).

Also, as is mentioned in Supersize Me, the food companies (the cafeteria is the one place in a public school that is looking to turn a profit) play their part by making sure we get generally high GI foods which deprive us of energy, which makes us tired for class, and thus even less learning occurs (I started eating my own food when I was trying to gain weight for football/lacrosse and the difference in my post-lunch energy was amazing).

I mean it's so obvious what's wrong, but because the problems are so deeply rooted in every facet of our current academic lifestyle, there's no way it can just be fixed like it's no problem. Also, because we're failing so badly, even legislation or court rulings have banned tests that show ineptitude in a certain area (see Diane Ravitch's "Back to Basics" essay).

I'm really surprised we're able to do as well as we have done in spite of our systemic issues. And we haven't done particularly well (we rank generally near the bottom of "1st world" countries)

FOR once-okay more than a few times I agree with soapbox and painmaker, I dont personally like tenure, it makes too many teachers complacent. It is a profession that is grossly underpaid considering how important it is, that is my point and to just blast the whole profession and everyone in it is shortsighted.

I have two little ones myself three and one, and its MY JOB to start all those processes of learning, reading, math, etc, but unfortunately many homes dont do that. So the teachers are the only ones reaching out to the kids.

Soap and Pain I do agree with both of you, but the bottom line is $$$ and people dont want to pay for it, SO...here we are, but my point with the resident idiot-drago there is no reason to stay all teachers are stupid or whatever he said.

Originally posted by soapbox
Originally posted by Lorenzo Express

Originally posted by RTJakarta


Originally posted by soapbox



Originally posted by RTJakarta




My girlfriend's dad basically didn't even go to college and he makes six figures. \m/

There's no correlation of education in the Fortune 500 business owners (meaning it's not like they all went to college or even finished high school or anything... Bill Gates didn't have a college degree when he started Windows [dunno if he got one later]).

My point: college can very well be overrated in some cases.

"Overrated" would be an incorrect term. College exponentially increases your chances of achieving a "successful" career. There are people that have a great work ethic and end up making great money, but within the next generation or so you will not find many super successful non-college graduates.

Also, Gates is a horrible example because he found he didn't even need Harvard. You will always have a few of these special people.

Edit: Please excuse any errors. The iPhone can can be tricky.

Gates went to MIT, not Harvard. The point was that he didn't need a degree. No one NEEDS a degree except doctors and lawyers. The problem is most people lack the balls to be entrepreneurs

And the whole prediction for the next gen and stuff... I doubt that's true. There will always be people who are just absolutely right for owning their own businesses and succeeding and there's no reason (other than pessimism towards the future) to believe otherwise.

Wrong on Gates - it was Harvard. And my point is that nearly all corporate jobs will require college degrees. Now many company VP's and general managers do not have them. I worked at a couple of college jobs where this was the case.

These degrees will be a pre-requisite. Now, I am not saying it is that useful in all situations. Heck, most of what I am able to do in the classroom comes from first hand experience.

Having a degree wont be a minus. It CANT hurt. Yes there are exceptions that didnt get one, but for a HUGE majority, degrees help.

Originally posted by Lorenzo Express

These degrees will be a pre-requisite. Now, I am not saying it is that useful in all situations. Heck, most of what I am able to do in the classroom comes from first hand experience.

...and you might understand a sliver of why your profession is a joke to anyone with an open eye with that last comment.

So clinton what is your NOBLE profession?