Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
CD, I get your point that it benefits Zone, but that is not what I'm arguing about... That new benefit also benefits Man as well and Man already does a much better job of preventing pass completions. You still just nerfed Zone. How about you make it so that OAI and Swat Down only fire with over the to coverage. Then we can have some balance between the two and all the guys wanting passing buffed get more for their money.

lmao, dude come on! the SA is literally called ON AN ISLAND! that literally means there is no help anywhere, its in the name. How can you push for a SA thats name says something to not do it? Where is the logical in that? and man defense is not as good at stopping the outside run unless you build guys to try and do that. That is the give and take of man to zone. Man defense is better at pass coverage while zone is better at stopping outside running.

Originally posted by Corndog
They do, they have cover expert.

Your crusade to get zone SAs to fire in deep zones is dumb, so like, you may as well stop with it. I don't know why you think it would be a buff to zone, it would just make it so every safety has the SAs and it would help man coverage just as much as zone.

Man gets Cover Expert too, also all their SAs work in deep coverage. I don't see why Zone Shark couldn't work in any Zone, or just make a SA for Safeties in Zone that is similar... or balance it out by restricting Man to over the top coverage as well. Its dumb we can't have a balance between the defenses.

Originally posted by ellix
Should we take this to mean you also have no intention to change Zone Shark?

Yeah, not really.

The underneath Zone SAs are so strong because they have narrow requirements. Making them so that all safeties always take them would mean they need to be nerfed, which then takes away from the very thing Myrik wants them for, improving zone.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
CD, I get your point that it benefits Zone, but that is not what I'm arguing about... That new benefit also benefits Man as well and Man already does a much better job of preventing pass completions. You still just nerfed Zone. How about you make it so that OAI and Swat Down only fire with over the to coverage. Then we can have some balance between the two and all the guys wanting passing buffed get more for their money.

The majority of teams are still just going to force feed their TEs over the middle and it will be the same as it ever was. Not a lot of teams are going to want to get a S* QB and a few WRs together on the chance it might be good. When HB + TE is a tried and tested method.

Originally posted by ellix
Should we take this to mean you also have no intention to change Zone Shark?

The zone shark really could be a good change, and because corndog even made the point it would make Safeties on man defense could use it. That would be a win win for everyone. But thats also why he doesnt want to change it I think.

Originally posted by dredgar
lmao, dude come on! the SA is literally called ON AN ISLAND! that literally means there is no help anywhere, its in the name. How can you push for a SA thats name says something to not do it? Where is the logical in that? and man defense is not as good at stopping the outside run unless you build guys to try and do that. That is the give and take of man to zone. Man defense is better at pass coverage while zone is better at stopping outside running.

I'll give you Zone is better vs outside runs, but it was traditionally weaker vs inside runs and pass completions.

Zone Shark is just called Zone Shark, nowhere in its name does it say "over the top help needed". You even agreed that Safeties should be able to use it because it matches what they do IRL.

GD, throw me a bone.

Originally posted by Corndog
Yeah, not really.

The underneath Zone SAs are so strong because they have narrow requirements. Making them so that all safeties always take them would mean they need to be nerfed, which then takes away from the very thing Myrik wants them for, improving zone.

Sure, but isn't Monster Hit just the defacto SA here instead? Like I don't take Zone Shark on a Safety because of the requirements. If Zone Shark suddenly worked for Safeties, it's not like I lost the choice to take Monster Hit instead. Safeties have extremely little in the way of SA choice - it'd be nice to see them get a few more options.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
Man gets Cover Expert too, also all their SAs work in deep coverage. I don't see why Zone Shark couldn't work in any Zone, or just make a SA for Safeties in Zone that is similar... or balance it out by restricting Man to over the top coverage as well. Its dumb we can't have a balance between the defenses.



Why do the SA need to work for one defense and not the other completely? By working for both doesn't that make it BALANCED? Its dumb to restric over the top to a guy that is already 1 on 1 coveraged.

Cover expert could work for a zone, I havent seen it tried. It would improve your defenders reaction time and get to the deflection faster or the knock loose more because it improves speed thus improving hit power.

Originally posted by dredgar
The zone shark really could be a good change, and because corndog even made the point it would make Safeties on man defense could use it. That would be a win win for everyone. But thats also why he doesnt want to change it I think.

If that's the case, make a zone specific version I guess.

Originally posted by Corndog
Also seeing a lot of these after the changes
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/814628/1891261

i dont remember which page its on but i did say i really like the changes lol

I feel like it introduces more variance on passing arc AND pass speeds which leads to more emergent gameplay. well as emergent as watching a sim gets haha

the argument shifted a bit in this thread to how the previous nights changes were an indirect buff to zone and that was just completely unacceptable. now admittedly last night the super slow passes that were hitting the ground yards in front of the target wasn't great but it was also terrible weather to test passing in.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
If that's the case, make a zone specific version I guess.

There's already a zone specific version, though.

Originally posted by ThePh33P
you misunderstand, I'm not saying the coaches or playcalling are uninspiring. but use this play from today as an example

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/814582/1882270

This is just a boring play the ball is thrown to a 50/50 situation and all im hoping is that i win the dice roll in this situation. That's just bland ya know.

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/814534/1873036

From sophmore ^^

Knights are not a man team but in this situation they ran man and my FS gets fooled and its nice clean good completion. It's not a flashy play but its enough to say "good play"

3rd and 5 with the opposition going for a deep throw, that’s a pretty smart defend play. Especially looking at the talent.

sidebar: I might be alone on this, but I like the short throws. I think they’re better than advertised, just not good for soft throwers. Noodle arm QBs were actually allowed to go on way longer than they should’ve, so I’m surprised there’s so much backlash on the pass power buff.

Originally posted by ellix
Sure, but isn't Monster Hit just the defacto SA here instead? LikeI don't take Zone Shark on a Safety because of the requirements. If Zona Shark suddenly worked for Safeties, it's not like I lost the choice to take Monster Hit instead. Safeties have extremely little in the way of SA choice - it'd be nice to see them get a few more options.

You know, I was kinda thinking the same thing... MH is superior IMO. I judge SAs based on effectiveness and often I can use them... Zone Shark is strong, but is very limited, there is a reason it hardly gets used. Monster Hit can be used everywhere and vs run or pass.

Safeties do need more SAs and I would have really liked something specifically to help zone since this is a nerf to it.

Originally posted by TyDavis315
3rd and 5 with the opposition going for a deep throw, that’s a pretty smart defend play. Especially looking at the talent.

sidebar: I might be alone on this, but I like the short throws. I think they’re better than advertised, just not good for soft throwers. Noodle arm QBs were actually allowed to go on way longer than they should’ve, so I’m surprised there’s so much backlash on the pass power buff.

I mean I think only one agent is outright against it.

Originally posted by TyDavis315
3rd and 5 with the opposition going for a deep throw, that’s a pretty smart defend play. Especially looking at the talent.

sidebar: I might be alone on this, but I like the short throws. I think they’re better than advertised, just not good for soft throwers. Noodle arm QBs were actually allowed to go on way longer than they should’ve, so I’m surprised there’s so much backlash on the pass power buff.

to me its the in consistency in the throws. Why is a decent pass power (50) still throwing some throws like a baby girl and some others like brett favre? Throws now are so inconsistent its hard. But that is the attempt of balancing it all out I suppose.