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ShadyMcCoy
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Originally posted by Corndog
Studies have shown, and as has been the case here, the long term players of an MMO are generally users with social investments. Friends, guilds, teams are typically what make people stay around. Most of the well known solo team heroes have moved on at this point, and the people left are the people that network and work together. If the impetus to recruit other players' superstars into your team is diminished by limiting the number of stars, then those players are less likely to network and less likely to become those long term players with social investment.

What is interesting, to me, is the strategic implications and overall "feel" of superstars on a team. A whole team of stars, for example, would basically remove the strategic option of where you place your stars, and would just "feel" silly that every player on your team is a superstar. I do feel like a third of your team being superstars is teetering on the edge of being too much, both from a strategic and feel perspective.

But regardless, pointing to number of superstars on a team being the reason new users get crushed is just the old hat argument of attaching "helps new users" to whatever your current pet peeve is. We could remove superstars from the game completely and new users would still get crushed by 100 points a game.


What doesn't seem to be getting grasped is that this is a small and decreasing user base. There are less and less people to network with. I also think there is a stick your head in the sand happening regarding the use of multi accounts to give the appearance of networking. And the lack of teams is getting crisis level bad. This emphasis on "networking is good" is causing a consolation of teams rather than an expansion. If the owners are adopting a force users into networking or die off situation then what other steps are being taken to increase team ownership?

 
Corndog
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Originally posted by ShadyMcCoy
What doesn't seem to be getting grasped is that this is a small and decreasing user base. There are less and less people to network with. I also think there is a stick your head in the sand happening regarding the use of multi accounts to give the appearance of networking. And the lack of teams is getting crisis level bad. This emphasis on "networking is good" is causing a consolation of teams rather than an expansion. If the owners are adopting a force users into networking or die off situation then what other steps are being taken to increase team ownership?


What's not being grasped is no good realistic alternative has been put forth that will increase the number of users, because there likely isn't one. The format of this game is more than a decade old, and browser games haven't been taken serious by the majority of the market for most of that time. Everyone thinks whatever their current pet peeve is what is stopping the flood of new users from coming in, as if tweaking some specific value that's only relevant for playoff teams is the one thing keep this game from billions of users.

Likewise, superstar count isn't what's limiting the number of teams. There's not going to be a sudden surge in number of teams if superstars cost 25% more salary cap. People that want to run a team will run a team whether they can only get together 6 superstars or if they can get together 12. The number of people that only wait until they have 12 superstars before they put together a team is miniscule.
 
Corndog
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But like, I've said I'm open to the idea of limiting the number of superstars on a team. Like, multiple times.
 
Hzachary1
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Originally posted by Corndog
What would probably be a good thing is a mentor system where older users can help newer users. I'm not sure how much actual interest there would be in that, though, and it would be a pretty significant leap of faith that it would work out.


I imagine implementing something like that as a game function would be hard to do and guarantee a successful outcome. But it can be done through the community.

That’s what I did, I bought a team and recruited heavily towards new users. I hung out in rookie for a few seasons and helped guys with builds, offered to let them help coach the team, and answered any questions that I could. Some of them made new players for the rookie team for multiple seasons. On I believe the 3rd season in rookie we had a decent roster of guys that wanted to make a vet run. We weren’t ready for it from a competitive stand point but they got a lot out of it and so did I. Some of those guys are still around today and a lot of them aren’t. But I met Diamond D on that team and we have now started to work together.

I was and still am pretty green but I was able to give and get a lot out of that experience. In a similar situation guys like Ty, Shady, Brett, and a lot of others could give so much more than I was able to and get just as much or more out of it. Not everyone is going to want to take the time to coach a team, it might only be 1 out of every 20 you meet but those guys are valuable to keep around and anyone who just wants to build players and find it fun are just as valuable to keep around.

That is how I did it, I am sure some of these guys could put there own spin on it and do an even better job of keeping players engaged and helping them out.
 
Detroit Leos
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I have tried implementing a coaching carousel on BSB multiple times. Allowing anybody who would like to take a swing at coaching games the chance to do so with a well constructed roster. Had a few dive in on games in rookie ball, but not this season... That is how I attempt to groom coaches. I watch BSB games somewhat meticulously and can point out holes in PBs and/or tactics.

Really just requires people willing to take swings. I have also had countless in depth discussions regarding player build philosophies.

Many of us old guys are more than willing to help, but the new guys still have to walk out on the limb and ask the questions to get the answers that they seek.
 
Ghanima
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If we accept the fact that user base wont rise , We can focus on making some funny changes to keep existing player base. For example hard reset on hall of fame. Some features to CPU team like CPU stars or presets of CPU dots.

My dream is for U to enable players to rewrite renderer of this game It deserve more.
 
Corndog
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Originally posted by Ghanima
If we accept the fact that user base wont rise , We can focus on making some funny changes to keep existing player base. For example hard reset on hall of fame. Some features to CPU team like CPU stars or presets of CPU dots.

My dream is for U to enable players to rewrite renderer of this game It deserve more.


The replay data has always been there. Nobody has cared enough to rewrite it.
 
BoDiddley
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Originally posted by Corndog
But like, I've said I'm open to the idea of limiting the number of superstars on a team. Like, multiple times.

Don't think there needs to be a superstar limit since we have a salary cap. Really, that would just make the building side of the game less interesting.
 
Bretto007
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Originally posted by Corndog
Studies have shown, and as has been the case here, the long term players of an MMO are generally users with social investments. Friends, guilds, teams are typically what make people stay around. Most of the well known solo team heroes have moved on at this point, and the people left are the people that network and work together. If the impetus to recruit other players' superstars into your team is diminished by limiting the number of stars, then those players are less likely to network and less likely to become those long term players with social investment.

What is interesting, to me, is the strategic implications and overall "feel" of superstars on a team. A whole team of stars, for example, would basically remove the strategic option of where you place your stars, and would just "feel" silly that every player on your team is a superstar. I do feel like a third of your team being superstars is teetering on the edge of being too much, both from a strategic and feel perspective.

But regardless, pointing to number of superstars on a team being the reason new users get crushed is just the old hat argument of attaching "helps new users" to whatever your current pet peeve is. We could remove superstars from the game completely and new users would still get crushed by 100 points a game.


You won't get a vet to donate star players to a rookie team now or forever as I've seen it. Those stars are reserved for special double digit elite star smash squads of destruction. The rookie is going to quit because he gets gang beaten to death by every vet on here.

I'd be interested in verifying some of the details of those studies. The term "networking" can mean several different things and doesn't automatically mean virtual users banding together and beating up on users late to the party. The game could have experienced success from people having fun and bringing in their real life friends as an example. I believe it can still be considered "networking" if you are playing against other people and not just on the same team.

I believe the game would have benefited more by funneling more people into successful team ownership situations. The vets can give the "use TE Smother" advice to rookies all they want but if you don't have the stars it doesn't matter. And stars on here are a scarce resource. Vets don't just donate their star players to a rookie team.

If we keep pushing people into combining their teams we lose out on more and more teams.

I'm not such much in the camp of trying to decrease access to star players even more. I think we should be giving users the ability to create more within their own accounts and sooner. New Users would love it, existing users could then create their own teams instead of shrinking the team pool by banding together, ect.

 
Corndog
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Originally posted by Bretto007

I'm not such much in the camp of trying to decrease access to star players even more. I think we should be giving users the ability to create more within their own accounts and sooner. New Users would love it, existing users could then create their own teams instead of shrinking the team pool by banding together, ect.


Would new users really love it? How do you figure?

They still aren't going to be joining successful teams because as you said vets don't want to associate with new players. The only thing that's going to do is flood the lower leagues with a bunch of poorly built superstars because everyone making their first players is going to be a superstar. All the while new users know no different because it's all the same and they are still losing.

How do new users "love it"? Flooding the game with superstars then superstars may as well be removed. If everyone is a superstar nobody is a superstar.
Edited by Corndog on Jan 25, 2021 23:56:57
 
Bretto007
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Originally posted by Corndog
Would new users really love it? How do you figure?

They still aren't going to be joining successful teams because as you said vets don't want to associate with new players. The only thing that's going to do is flood the lower leagues with a bunch of poorly built superstars because everyone making their first players is going to be a superstar. All the while new users know no different because it's all the same and they are still losing.

How do new users "love it"? Flooding the game with superstars then superstars may as well be removed. If everyone is a superstar nobody is a superstar.


If they were mostly playing against other rookies then they would be having a blast.

Has much thought has gone into making classes of users Beginner, Medium, Advanced. ??


How about this for an idea. All Vet users put together a team by themselves and they all play starting at Rookie with no Star players. Heck let's even make it an unboosted league for real fun.


Edited by Bretto007 on Jan 26, 2021 00:22:33
Edited by Bretto007 on Jan 26, 2021 00:20:51
 
Hzachary1
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Originally posted by Bretto007
If they were mostly playing against other rookies then they would be having a blast.

Has much thought has gone into making classes of users Beginner, Medium, Advanced. ??


How about this for an idea. All Vet users put together a team by themselves and they all play starting at Rookie with no Star players. Heck let's even make it an unboosted league for real fun.




I’d be up for an unboosted league if we can get enough teams on board to commit to going from rookie to vet. I am sure CD can make sure we are all in the same league.

These are the kinds of things we can do as a community to keep the game interesting and engaging.
Edited by Hzachary1 on Jan 26, 2021 00:33:35
 
ShadyMcCoy
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Originally posted by Hzachary1
I’d be up for an unboosted league if we can get enough teams on board to commit to going from rookie to vet. I am sure CD can make sure we are all in the same league.

These are the kinds of things we can do as a community to keep the game interesting and engaging.


And then have them donate a star player to an inexperienced rookie team.

I want to see all these stars don't matter people eat crow
 
Corndog
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Originally posted by Bretto007
If they were mostly playing against other rookies then they would be having a blast.


Other rookies that are also either poorly built superstars from new players, or vets with coherent builds that are still better than theirs because they are on a full team built with a purpose and better coaching.

I'm failing to see where the "having a blast" comes in being the best player on a 3-25 CPU team ran by mostly CPU. I don't see how that is vastly different than the current experience.

Like I'm open to the idea. It's a simple and straightforward change to make. If it will have such a drastic effect as you say, it seems like a no brainer. Convince me how it's going to transform the new user experience in such a profound way.
Edited by Corndog on Jan 26, 2021 01:20:58
Edited by Corndog on Jan 26, 2021 01:11:47
 
TyDavis315
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Plainville went winless last season I believe and now we’re at 10 wins with Shady on board. It started with simple communication with the owner, then he realized he had to build a staff. Shady has been great for that. Like I said, even donating a few players and really getting into it can be a difference. Why hang out by yourself when you can dominate while making a positive influence while not trying to force your own style on anyone.

I don’t know where you guys keep getting this idea that I’m anti stars. My favorite teams of all time in GLB2 are star heavy and my favorite current user has been Myrik for some time. The pretty seamless switch from man to zone has been significantly aided by stars. Nowhere did I say I was against super teams, i said it’s obnoxious. They’re obnoxious in real life, games, whatever have you. 36 is a red line roster, if we had injuries the team would be borderline terrible. 38ish is cool. But 36 with 10+ stars? A lot of numbers had to be crunched meticulously.

I’d like to see the forums stay alive other than when people want to mumble and grumble. Also, can we just get a full HoF sweep after this season? As much as those guys are the elite of the elite, it’s just too much of a different game. Comparison between eras will never give you the full story.

As much as I would like to team up with guys, my motto is honestly simple. Find star players and get them HoF numbers. I want them doing everything, I’m the Tom Thibideau of GLB2. After my first full run coming back I think I like the dual threat idea so I’m going to try different iterations of that. I openly recruit and am fully transparent on my team ideas when I PM everyone. I’m only nice to the people who are on the team, during the season I’m here to kick everyone else’s ass. I never said you guys were wrong in that mindset, but have you ever taken the time to send a well thought out email afterwards encouraging and tipping them on some of the big things in game? Not everyone is going to just hop into forums, a lot of them probably only get PM’s. I know I’m working with a guy now that I had the chance to work with once before. Still a very new guy but this time I’m taking initiative to make sure he sticks around. Baby steps.

We’re seven years in now, as a user base we should probably be a lot more vocal and caring for the community than what I’m seeing. And that’s directly towards us that have been here at least a year
 
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