Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Bort

Say I train 2 attributes that each increase by 60 points.

Old system:

Total gain = 120 * 1.25 (150), costs me 5 TP's.
150/5 = 30 points gained per training point spent.
I get 1 bonus token.

New system:
Total gain = 120, costs me 4 TP's.
120/4 = 30 points gained per training point spent.
I get 2 bonus tokens.


Granted, but that's not the issue as I see it, the BT's are.

The weighted BT's under the previous system are 0.6 per training point.
(1*3)/5.

Under the new system we're only getting 0.5.
2/4

But now we have a million things to spend BT's on, just to train efficiently we'll have to spend a ton of BT's unlocking multi combinations.

Originally posted by Meatdawg
Saris is correct on that you would never train those 4 attributes on a QB at the same time. Ideally, you would never train Throwing again after you capped it first.

I think there needs to be a way to trade back in your attribute leveling to save you some BT's. If I invested in vis to take it up to level 5 to get the biggest gain, I will never train it again past level 25 ideally. It would be nice to be able to refund those 150 BT's.

Or don't upgrade those stats that you don't think you'll be training enough to pay off?

If there's no situation where it pays off, I buy this argument. But, if it makes sense to upgrade some later stat that you end up training a lot more, I don't have a problem. I think it's ok that you might train some stats one way and some another.

Originally posted by kurieg
Or don't upgrade those stats that you don't think you'll be training enough to pay off?

If there's no situation where it pays off, I buy this argument. But, if it makes sense to upgrade some later stat that you end up training a lot more, I don't have a problem. I think it's ok that you might train some stats one way and some another.

My issues is what Saris's issues is. The lack of BT you will have in the end.

Originally posted by Meatdawg
Originally posted by kurieg

Or don't upgrade those stats that you don't think you'll be training enough to pay off?

If there's no situation where it pays off, I buy this argument. But, if it makes sense to upgrade some later stat that you end up training a lot more, I don't have a problem. I think it's ok that you might train some stats one way and some another.

My issues is what Saris's issues is. The lack of BT you will have in the end.

This is the the new health care system.Both suck.

Originally posted by Meatdawg
My issues is what Saris's issues is. The lack of BT you will have in the end.

Ya, that I get. I just don't think refunds are the answer. I feel like the upgrading is an investment/payoff option that, ideally, is worthwhile sometimes but not all times. I don't think a refund is the way to fix any problems with it.

I agree with Saris that's there's a basic weakness in the new multi-attribute training vs. the old one.

Originally posted by Meatdawg
Saris is correct on that you would never train those 4 attributes on a QB at the same time. Ideally, you would never train Throwing again after you capped it first.

I think there needs to be a way to trade back in your attribute leveling to save you some BT's. If I invested in vis to take it up to level 5 to get the biggest gain, I will never train it again past level 25 ideally. It would be nice to be able to refund those 150 BT's.

in bort's less wordy new world old world example, it doesnt take into account this "stealth" tax on tokens. i did some rough calcs, and we lose out on any unlocking we do. the AEQ amounts were answered in another thread, so they seem ok(unless you blow your wad picking the exact AEQ you want) so i have to agree with Meatdawg, these need to be refundable somehow, if the status quo is to remain between switching over to the new system

Originally posted by kurieg
Ya, that I get. I just don't think refunds are the answer. I feel like the upgrading is an investment/payoff option that, ideally, is worthwhile sometimes but not all times. I don't think a refund is the way to fix any problems with it.

I agree with Saris that's there's a basic weakness in the new multi-attribute training vs. the old one.

To justify 150 tokens to reach level 5, that would mean I would have to train that attribute for a long, long time.

Maybe I could see paying to unlock sta this way, and I would never invest SP in it. It would always be in some kind of training combo. But other then that, can I justify spending that much? not really.

Obviously a full refund doesn't make sense, buy maybe half back. It would give you a risk vs reward in raising an attributes level early on in order to reap the rewards early in your build.

Originally posted by Bort

Since we want to give some reason to do lighter single training sometimes to gain bonus tokens, instead of just making multi-train the only logical choice, I'd say we're pretty balanced there.


You guys are missing the most important part of Bort's quote.

Old system there was ONE way you could gain BT's - it was at a rate of 1 every 2.5 days (equivalent of 3 every 2.5 days or 1.2 per day)

New system there are multiple ways:
Hard - 1.0 per day
Medium - 2.0 per day
Light - 3.0 per day
Two+ - 1.0 per day

So we're reducing the bonus token conversion for training two attributes by .2 per day because there are options where that efficiency is increased up to 250%. If we just made it easy to obtain BT's through training 2+ attributes that is all people would ever do.

Originally posted by UsCtRoJaNs1820
Originally posted by UsCtRoJaNs1820

Originally posted by UsCtRoJaNs1820


Originally posted by UsCtRoJaNs1820



So can I get a reason as to why the training system is being changed? The first training system in GLB we had was good and then the current one we have is decent. Why is something being changed when "it's not broke".



Still waiting for the answer.

I'll keep bumping until I get an answer. After all we were told to post a question and it would be answered.

So my question is just going to be ignored?

That being said - I can see reducing the price of enhancements a bit. Good point made about how you'll never train an attrib past a certain point and the sunk BT cost is pretty high on those. What about 1/2 of what it currently is...

5-10-15-20-25

I think its funny how Catch is refusing to answer the questions that really need answered here. The current training system is just fine.

Why, Catch, Why?

Catch, check my math here, but it seems like there is NO reason to get the enhanced training bonuses.

To get to level 5 is 150 BT. Let's say I train medium for 75 days to get those 150 tokens. Using your 30% example, that gets me 22.5 attribute points (75*.30). Now I train another 75 days at the 50% lvl 5 bonus, so I'm getting 90% each day = 67.5 points (75*.90). So a total of 90 points (67.5+22.5).

If I stuck on intense for those 150 days @60%, I'm at 90 points! So I need to train more than 150 days to come out ahead by going to level 5! Oh, and that's 150 days on ONE attribute. I need to do this for every attribute??? When will I ever train 1 skill for 150 days? Ergo, it is useless to go to level 5.

Similar answer at lvl 2. To get to 30 BT, I can go 10 days on light @15% = 1.5 points gained. Then, I can do 38 more days at 72% = 27.4 points, so a total of 28.9 points. Compare that to intense for the full 48 days at 60% = 28.8 points gained, so it takes 48 days to get ahead and again I ask, am I really training any one skill for 48 days to get an advantage?

And it's actually worse than this because the base gain isn't constant but declines over time, so I am getting losses on training when the increases are based off 60% and my bonuses are when I'm at more like a 30% base.

Am I missing something or do these numbers need to be adjusted because it seems I will never want to use these enhanced trainings? The BT cost is just way too high.

Originally posted by Catch22
That being said - I can see reducing the price of enhancements a bit. Good point made about how you'll never train an attrib past a certain point and the sunk BT cost is pretty high on those. What about 1/2 of what it currently is...

5-10-15-20-25

Convert for 4 BTs to a different att?

answered the question at least three times already. I'm not going to keep answering it, especially since it's counter productive to the discussion in here. Change is finalized, it's going to be implemented into the game.