Warrior General Games

I say it once again, make there be a penalty for only having 36 players. Max chemistry limits at 70%

Originally posted by Corndog
That suggestion actually seems interesting.

Interestingly bad.

I dunno CD, things just seem off at times, that being one of them. Like if I run 'balanced' playbooks it ends up being closer to 75% pass because it passes 3/4 on first down and the other downs get skewed toward pass because of it.

You should be able to look at pickup games where balanced is run all the time and see exactly what I mean, it's almost always above 67% pass. Balanced has a slight lean toward run on first down, yet the game has a moderate lean toward pass on first when the balanced playbook is run.

Originally posted by william78
Plus it's also somewhat illogical QB's accrue some loss simply turning and handing the ball off - I realize there is more for hard exertion, but OL don't rotate in many normal games DL do simply for the reason that the OL isn't actually engaged in pursuit.

Yeah I've always observed that the QB get's way too winded for what they do.

Originally posted by Corndog
That suggestion actually seems interesting.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
Interestingly bad.

Ok, if we're actually talking about implementing something like this, I'd suggest that the first 3 Superstars are "free". Some S* are ok, but too many stir the pot too much. Everyone can get to 3 S* on their own account so a team with a single owner can compete with multi-owners. The networking advantage still exists: you have lower real $ costs.

So make 3 Superstars "free" and then limit Chemistry by 2 points for each S* after that. So a 10 S* team gets charged for 7, which is 14 points, and therefore max out at 86.

Change High Contracts: Change the High contract bonus so that instead of gaining Chemistry faster, it adds to the Team cap. 2 points per High Contract seem good. These are the Clubhouse Leaders.

Change Low Contracts: Change the Low contract bonus so that instead of capping that player's Chemistry at 50, it lowers the Team Cap by 2 points. These are the Clubhouse Malcontents.

Team Chemistry cap is still 100; floor is still 50.

Now if you want to load up on S*, you have to balance out how many High contracts you can give to K, P, FB, DT, OT without giving anyone a Low.

Originally posted by Raid
I dunno CD, things just seem off at times, that being one of them. Like if I run 'balanced' playbooks it ends up being closer to 75% pass because it passes 3/4 on first down and the other downs get skewed toward pass because of it.

You should be able to look at pickup games where balanced is run all the time and see exactly what I mean, it's almost always above 67% pass. Balanced has a slight lean toward run on first down, yet the game has a moderate lean toward pass on first when the balanced playbook is run.

No.

I've played this sim for years and I've talked with Stobie extensively on his data collection before GLB2scout and since.

The play calling is just a random number generator. Sure, it's streaky because every computer random number generator runs off a table and every table has some elements of streakiness in it, but in the end it balances out.

If you're actually seeing a massive difference over a long period of time, then there is something wrong with your settings (versus your expectation).

I've got 50 seasons of running LogZilla playbooks and 40 of them having Stobie gather the data and analyze it. I've run all-pass, all-run and balanced O. The random number generator is fine.

Originally posted by Xars
Ok, if we're actually talking about implementing something like this, I'd suggest that the first 3 Superstars are "free". Some S* are ok, but too many stir the pot too much. Everyone can get to 3 S* on their own account so a team with a single owner can compete with multi-owners. The networking advantage still exists: you have lower real $ costs.

So make 3 Superstars "free" and then limit Chemistry by 2 points for each S* after that. So a 10 S* team gets charged for 7, which is 14 points, and therefore max out at 86.

Change High Contracts: Change the High contract bonus so that instead of gaining Chemistry faster, it adds to the Team cap. 2 points per High Contract seem good. These are the Clubhouse Leaders.

Change Low Contracts: Change the Low contract bonus so that instead of capping that player's Chemistry at 50, it lowers the Team Cap by 2 points. These are the Clubhouse Malcontents.

Team Chemistry cap is still 100; floor is still 50.

Now if you want to load up on S*, you have to balance out how many High contracts you can give to K, P, FB, DT, OT.


I do admire the intent - I liked it first time I read it but then thought more about the impact it would have and my guess is it would be arbitrary. I still think the net effect would be to kill superstars from tier 1 (OL, DT, K, P).

Plus you have some illogical things: A SuperStar QB probably wants to play with SS WR and vice-versa. A SS QB is certainly overjoyed by a SS OT, if anything it should actually improve chemistry not hurt it.

Meanwhile things that actually could lead to friction - like having two SS WR's would be treated the same as having your QB paired with a SS DT. Though the WR situation could be a point of friction but maybe not if you throw 85% of the time.

It's still got some merit but I think rather than an outright simple rule based on their appearance on the roster a tweak for in game usage would be more appropriate. You could accomplish the intent without limiting gameplay if you are a little more thoughtful with usage and recognizing the offensive players "I want the ball mentality".

In Exemplar from League Play call it "Locker Room Chemistry" - for SuperStar players would be effected by their secondary traits and could cause locker room issues:
Your Superstar HB with rusher trait doesn't get 20 carries in the game :
1st time it happens in a game - thats a -1 to the offensive team chemistry cap
2nd time in a row that's -3 to the offensive players team chemistry cap
3rd time in a row that's -6 to the offensive sides team chemistry and -3 to the defense/special teams (the issue is spilling over)

....The "hit" then goes away as the issue goes away, if it was a 3 bagger penalty the hit goes away to level 2, then level 1 then gone.

SuperStar WR any trait or receiving trait SuperStar TE doesn't get 10 targets in the game:
1st time it happens in a game - thats a -1 to the offensive team chemistry cap
2nd time in a row that's -3 to the offensive players team chemistry cap
3rd time in a row that's -6 to the offensive sides team chemistry and -3 to the defense/special teams (the issue is spilling over)

You can come up with other combos based on trait and Superstar status, obviously a SuperStar Scatback (if anyone has one) probably does need 20 carries but wants some combination of 20 carries and receiving targets.

For defensive players it would be about usage - IE am I in on 85% of the defensive snaps, if yes all is good if no there would be the same penalty structure. I don't think a SuperStar CB really cares if there is a SuperStar SS also on the team. Even two SuperStar DT's if you a running 4 man lines isn't really an issue if both are starters they are simply the dynamic duo, but if your second superstar DT is just the designated pass rusher who comes in part-time he probably aint real happy a malcontent.

For All SuperSTar players (outside of K, P, or being a KR/PR) I think there should be a penalty for having to play special teams, this is "nug" work by and large that's handled by reserve players further down the roster.
1st time it happens -0 (Warning) maybe it was a really long game guy got exhausted in front of them they chipped in a little irked but probably keeping it to himself
2nd time it happens -1 to team cap for offensive and defensive players
3rd time it happens -2 to team cap for offensive and defensive players
4th time it happens -5 to team cap for offensive and defensive players (hey I'm a SuperStar why am I doing nug work)

....If the Penalty is cumulative per player that's a huge incentive but it's also a very realistic one, your SuperStar LT no matter how well conditioned doesn't want to be blocking on the wedge in a kick return.

As for Low Contract Players actually I think that the current penalty should be conditionally reversed. The 3rd HB, 5th CB, 5th LB is probably just happy to have a job. However if he's on a low contract and starts getting significant game time that should be something that aggravates the situation "hey' I'm doing the work I should get paid"
Set the mark at 35% of offensive or defensive plays by position, if they play more than that apply the penalty
1st Time Warning: 0 effect. (IE maybe your 5th CB was in because you met a team that turned into run and shoot).
2nd time : -1 / 0 His side of the ball
3rd time : -2 / 0 HIs side of the ball
4th time : -3 / -1 Both he's turning into a malcontent

Just saying if you base it off usage, rather the presence it doesn't limit how people can build a team just that if you sign SuperStars they want to be used and used heavily but not on special teams nug work.

They have to code it. The more complicated you make the system, the more difficult the coding is and the longer it takes.

Cap it at 1 S* per Tier. So you get 3 S* total but only 1 from each tier. Won't hurt DT, OT S*. QBs can still pair up with WR/TE.

But you're listing too many conditions running over multiple games. IMHO

Example of more complications but not as hard to code:

One S* per tier.
2nd S* in that tier = -2 to Team Chemistry cap.
3rd S* in that tier = -3 to Team Chemistry cap.
4th S* in that tier = -4 to Team Chemistry cap.

Or something.

Originally posted by Xars
They have to code it. The more complicated you make the system, the more difficult the coding is and the longer it takes.

Cap it at 1 S* per Tier. So you get 3 S* total but only 1 from each tier. Won't hurt DT, OT S*. QBs can still pair up with WR/TE.

But you're listing too many conditions running over multiple games. IMHO

Example of more complications but not as hard to code:

One S* per tier.
2nd S* in that tier = -2 to Team Chemistry cap.
3rd S* in that tier = -3 to Team Chemistry cap.
4th S* in that tier = -4 to Team Chemistry cap.

Or something.

I know its longer to code but only slightly more complicated, that said it's still not anywhere near as complicated as changing the in game mechanics, since it can be applied after the game from a simple database output.

The "Or Something" part is , again where I think the law of unintended consequences impacts the game in a bad way and makes it more cookie cutter. Usually when people go looking for simple solutions to complex problems they tend to make things into whack-a-mole. The problem is new user retention.

The problem with the consequence to keeping it simple , in this case though, is there is sure to be an optimal way to deploy those positions or tier groups - certainly TE is more valuable, in general than WR, DE more so than SS part of the fun of GLB is team design in a way that to some degree maximizes winning but also to some degree represents a style of football that the user wants to play. Now not only does someone who wants to build Tyreke Hill or Jerry Rice have to have someone who has cap space but also someone who doesn't mind deploying limited resources in a sub-optimal way which most competitive minded team owners who are investing alot don't really want to do.

SuperStar overload is probably most visible symptom of the problem - again I actually think its more playcalling but then you address 1 part and create another problem with more single source solution to a game where a big part of the fun is the diversity of design.

Thought about it, put it to you this way for simple to code, they are already tracking offensive vs. defensive plays and special teams for game knowledge, which means they have the total number per group

For a Defensive SuperStar - 85% usage on defense
So if the offense ran 40 plays: 34 or more plays no problem.
If its under 34 plays tag him as "Misued" - 1, if next game he's used properly after the game he goes to 0 if he's again tagged misued it goes to 2 and the effects happen as above.

For HB set a usage number of 25
Targets count 2 carries count 1 - some combination of 25 or more properly used no problem. Under that number an issue.

TE's and WR's the usage number is 20
Targetsx2 and carriesx1 (same formula) over 20 no problem under 20 tagged as misused 1

FB number is 8
Again Targets x2 carries x 1

For a FB or TE with trait "Blocking Specialist" or "Lead Blocker" reduce the usage by 50% [Even Moose Johnson got some love now and again]

For Low contract players again number at 35%
If the player is defensive and the offensive ran 40 plays but we was in for 14 or fewer no issue, 15 or more missued 1

On Special Teams plays "did the player see a special teams play?" "yes"
Is the player a K or P or was the player used a kicker returner/punt returner - if yes then no problem
If no then tag them as misused and apply the penalty above

You also don't need to adjust the teams chemistry cap - you simply apply the penalty at the same time normal players would be adding their variable chemistry if they were not already at 100. So if your SS DE ended up on special teams and has a misued 2 on him everyone but the K and P take a -1 hit on chemistry. Or if your Superstar WR has misused 3 on him right after all the chem checks and improvements you subtract 6 from every QB, HB, FB, WR, TE , OT, G and C on the team and 3 from everyone else as he goes into primadonna meltdown and starts creating bad YouTube TV.

Originally posted by Xars
No.

I've played this sim for years and I've talked with Stobie extensively on his data collection before GLB2scout and since.

The play calling is just a random number generator. Sure, it's streaky because every computer random number generator runs off a table and every table has some elements of streakiness in it, but in the end it balances out.

If you're actually seeing a massive difference over a long period of time, then there is something wrong with your settings (versus your expectation).

I've got 50 seasons of running LogZilla playbooks and 40 of them having Stobie gather the data and analyze it. I've run all-pass, all-run and balanced O. The random number generator is fine.

Balanced preset is nowhere near balanced - massively, over a long period of time - but okay.

Originally posted by Raid
Balanced preset is nowhere near balanced - massively, over a long period of time - but okay.

If you mean the preset Balanced O Tactics, you have to have all of the options in your playbook. You should typically. But it's setup on first down to be 50/50.

Which team of yours is running it? Was it all games this season? I'll post the scout data and we'll see.

Originally posted by Xars
If you mean the preset Balanced O Tactics, you have to have all of the options in your playbook. You should typically. But it's setup on first down to be 50/50.

Which team of yours is running it? Was it all games this season? I'll post the scout data and we'll see.



It’s run for both teams in a pickup game, of which there is massive amounts of data. I thought it was a bit leaning run on first down, but no it’s a literal 50/50 split in the strategy.

I'm not a fan of chemistry penalties in general because it punishes team owners when they have to replace an inactive player. Again this punishment's impacts newer users far more than the double digit all star teams.

The option that makes the most sense would be to allow users to make more star players. Given the decreasing user base and decreasing number of teams - this seems like the best option.

Originally posted by Xars
Ok, if we're actually talking about implementing something like this, I'd suggest that the first 3 Superstars are "free". Some S* are ok, but too many stir the pot too much. Everyone can get to 3 S* on their own account so a team with a single owner can compete with multi-owners. The networking advantage still exists: you have lower real $ costs.

So make 3 Superstars "free" and then limit Chemistry by 2 points for each S* after that. So a 10 S* team gets charged for 7, which is 14 points, and therefore max out at 86.

Change High Contracts: Change the High contract bonus so that instead of gaining Chemistry faster, it adds to the Team cap. 2 points per High Contract seem good. These are the Clubhouse Leaders.

Change Low Contracts: Change the Low contract bonus so that instead of capping that player's Chemistry at 50, it lowers the Team Cap by 2 points. These are the Clubhouse Malcontents.

Team Chemistry cap is still 100; floor is still 50.

Now if you want to load up on S*, you have to balance out how many High contracts you can give to K, P, FB, DT, OT without giving anyone a Low.


I just don't see this as helping newbies. Seems it would just cause more headaches for current agents.

Just allow agents to make as many S* players as they want, and the cap will balance it out. I've ran quite a few non-S* teams, and they already get a boost from using all high contracts.

Originally posted by BoDiddley
I just don't see this as helping newbies. Seems it would just cause more headaches for current agents.

Just allow agents to make as many S* players as they want, and the cap will balance it out. I've ran quite a few non-S* teams, and they already get a boost from using all high contracts.

That's true too but I'm not sure it's the implementation idea that Bort & Cdog want.

You'll just get every team having 10 S*.

Perhaps there's a different way to balance out teams with 0 S* and 10 S*.

Chemistry is also a boost. A 100 Chem team has a bigger Chem boost than an 80 Chem team. It might be the mechanic that they like better.

Also, I don't know why it would hurt new team owners. If you're a new play/owner, you're first team isn't going to have any S* (most likely). So at least your 43 regular players are getting the 100 Chem boost versus a Vet player running a team with 10 S* at 80 Chem.

It all depends on the Chem boost.