Can QBs pump fake when running? That would be cool if they could. I have seen it done in real life and it usually causes the defense to freeze.
Forum > Goal Line Blitz > So how does the SIM select the one defender per tick that gets juked or head faked?
taurran
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Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Originally posted by taurran
A few highlights from the first video I watched:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtnhwaffAnU&feature=fvst
Head fake on a player BEHIND him at 00:46
Juke on TWO players at 00:56
This stuff is possible in real life.
That wasn't a head fake at 46 seconds. That was him looking to the side. It had no effect on the defender who was already starting to dive at his legs.
At 56 seconds, he actually beats them with the quick cut. The juke occured 54/55 second mark, the first defender was frozen by it, the second defender still maintained his pursuit angle. At 56, Barry then makes a quick cut and uses high acceleration to beat the second defender who is unable to change the pursuit angle. He was not faked out by the juke move.
So you're saying it's absolutely impossible for two players to be faked by one juke move?
If so, it's the most retarded lack of logic I've ever heard.
Originally posted by taurran
A few highlights from the first video I watched:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtnhwaffAnU&feature=fvst
Head fake on a player BEHIND him at 00:46
Juke on TWO players at 00:56
This stuff is possible in real life.
That wasn't a head fake at 46 seconds. That was him looking to the side. It had no effect on the defender who was already starting to dive at his legs.
At 56 seconds, he actually beats them with the quick cut. The juke occured 54/55 second mark, the first defender was frozen by it, the second defender still maintained his pursuit angle. At 56, Barry then makes a quick cut and uses high acceleration to beat the second defender who is unable to change the pursuit angle. He was not faked out by the juke move.
So you're saying it's absolutely impossible for two players to be faked by one juke move?
If so, it's the most retarded lack of logic I've ever heard.
Rage Kinard
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Originally posted by taurran
Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Originally posted by taurran
A few highlights from the first video I watched:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtnhwaffAnU&feature=fvst
Head fake on a player BEHIND him at 00:46
Juke on TWO players at 00:56
This stuff is possible in real life.
That wasn't a head fake at 46 seconds. That was him looking to the side. It had no effect on the defender who was already starting to dive at his legs.
At 56 seconds, he actually beats them with the quick cut. The juke occured 54/55 second mark, the first defender was frozen by it, the second defender still maintained his pursuit angle. At 56, Barry then makes a quick cut and uses high acceleration to beat the second defender who is unable to change the pursuit angle. He was not faked out by the juke move.
So you're saying it's absolutely impossible for two players to be faked by one juke move?
If so, it's the most retarded lack of logic I've ever heard.
NO - I'm not saying that at all. 5 guys can be faked by one juke move. However, a guy 20 yards away isn't going to be faked by a juke move. Likewise, a guy coming from the side isn't likely to get faked by a player's side to side movement.
Maybe we have different definitions of a juke. I don't consider a quick cut a juke. What I consider the juke move is side to side movement to fool the defender. The cutting on a dime is a matter of agility. The ability to get back up to speed is a matter of speed/acceleration. The juke is used to freeze the defender(s), the cut(s) that follow a juke is a seperate move.
Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Originally posted by taurran
A few highlights from the first video I watched:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtnhwaffAnU&feature=fvst
Head fake on a player BEHIND him at 00:46
Juke on TWO players at 00:56
This stuff is possible in real life.
That wasn't a head fake at 46 seconds. That was him looking to the side. It had no effect on the defender who was already starting to dive at his legs.
At 56 seconds, he actually beats them with the quick cut. The juke occured 54/55 second mark, the first defender was frozen by it, the second defender still maintained his pursuit angle. At 56, Barry then makes a quick cut and uses high acceleration to beat the second defender who is unable to change the pursuit angle. He was not faked out by the juke move.
So you're saying it's absolutely impossible for two players to be faked by one juke move?
If so, it's the most retarded lack of logic I've ever heard.
NO - I'm not saying that at all. 5 guys can be faked by one juke move. However, a guy 20 yards away isn't going to be faked by a juke move. Likewise, a guy coming from the side isn't likely to get faked by a player's side to side movement.
Maybe we have different definitions of a juke. I don't consider a quick cut a juke. What I consider the juke move is side to side movement to fool the defender. The cutting on a dime is a matter of agility. The ability to get back up to speed is a matter of speed/acceleration. The juke is used to freeze the defender(s), the cut(s) that follow a juke is a seperate move.
taurran
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Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Originally posted by taurran
Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Originally posted by taurran
A few highlights from the first video I watched:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtnhwaffAnU&feature=fvst
Head fake on a player BEHIND him at 00:46
Juke on TWO players at 00:56
This stuff is possible in real life.
That wasn't a head fake at 46 seconds. That was him looking to the side. It had no effect on the defender who was already starting to dive at his legs.
At 56 seconds, he actually beats them with the quick cut. The juke occured 54/55 second mark, the first defender was frozen by it, the second defender still maintained his pursuit angle. At 56, Barry then makes a quick cut and uses high acceleration to beat the second defender who is unable to change the pursuit angle. He was not faked out by the juke move.
So you're saying it's absolutely impossible for two players to be faked by one juke move?
If so, it's the most retarded lack of logic I've ever heard.
NO - I'm not saying that at all. 5 guys can be faked by one juke move. However, a guy 20 yards away isn't going to be faked by a juke move. Likewise, a guy coming from the side isn't likely to get faked by a player's side to side movement.
Maybe we have different definitions of a juke. I don't consider a quick cut a juke. What I consider the juke move is side to side movement to fool the defender. The cutting on a dime is a matter of agility. The ability to get back up to speed is a matter of speed/acceleration. The juke is used to freeze the defender(s), the cut(s) that follow a juke is a seperate move.
Quick Cut isn't a move. It's just the ability of a HB to make cuts without losing speed.
Juke is an actual move/roll by the player.
Other than that I agree.
Originally posted by taurran
Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Originally posted by taurran
A few highlights from the first video I watched:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtnhwaffAnU&feature=fvst
Head fake on a player BEHIND him at 00:46
Juke on TWO players at 00:56
This stuff is possible in real life.
That wasn't a head fake at 46 seconds. That was him looking to the side. It had no effect on the defender who was already starting to dive at his legs.
At 56 seconds, he actually beats them with the quick cut. The juke occured 54/55 second mark, the first defender was frozen by it, the second defender still maintained his pursuit angle. At 56, Barry then makes a quick cut and uses high acceleration to beat the second defender who is unable to change the pursuit angle. He was not faked out by the juke move.
So you're saying it's absolutely impossible for two players to be faked by one juke move?
If so, it's the most retarded lack of logic I've ever heard.
NO - I'm not saying that at all. 5 guys can be faked by one juke move. However, a guy 20 yards away isn't going to be faked by a juke move. Likewise, a guy coming from the side isn't likely to get faked by a player's side to side movement.
Maybe we have different definitions of a juke. I don't consider a quick cut a juke. What I consider the juke move is side to side movement to fool the defender. The cutting on a dime is a matter of agility. The ability to get back up to speed is a matter of speed/acceleration. The juke is used to freeze the defender(s), the cut(s) that follow a juke is a seperate move.
Quick Cut isn't a move. It's just the ability of a HB to make cuts without losing speed.
Juke is an actual move/roll by the player.
Other than that I agree.
Rage Kinard
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Originally posted by taurran
Quick Cut isn't a move. It's just the ability of a HB to make cuts without losing speed.
Juke is an actual move/roll by the player.
Other than that I agree.
by GLB definition, that is what quick cut is. Howeve IRL, IMO a cut is definately a move and it is a different move than a juke.
IMO
Barry Sanders was a master of making cut moves
Marshall Faulk was a master of the juke
Barry Sanders could juke, but wasn't as good at it as Marshall
Marshall Faulk could make great cuts, but nothing like Barry
Quick Cut isn't a move. It's just the ability of a HB to make cuts without losing speed.
Juke is an actual move/roll by the player.
Other than that I agree.
by GLB definition, that is what quick cut is. Howeve IRL, IMO a cut is definately a move and it is a different move than a juke.
IMO
Barry Sanders was a master of making cut moves
Marshall Faulk was a master of the juke
Barry Sanders could juke, but wasn't as good at it as Marshall
Marshall Faulk could make great cuts, but nothing like Barry
taurran
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Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Originally posted by taurran
Quick Cut isn't a move. It's just the ability of a HB to make cuts without losing speed.
Juke is an actual move/roll by the player.
Other than that I agree.
by GLB definition, that is what quick cut is. Howeve IRL, IMO a cut is definately a move and it is a different move than a juke.
IMO
Barry Sanders was a master of making cut moves
Marshall Faulk was a master of the juke
Barry Sanders could juke, but wasn't as good at it as Marshall
Marshall Faulk could make great cuts, but nothing like Barry
I'm still not sure why we're feeling the need to debate the realistic possibility of juking two or more defenders with one fake.
Originally posted by taurran
Quick Cut isn't a move. It's just the ability of a HB to make cuts without losing speed.
Juke is an actual move/roll by the player.
Other than that I agree.
by GLB definition, that is what quick cut is. Howeve IRL, IMO a cut is definately a move and it is a different move than a juke.
IMO
Barry Sanders was a master of making cut moves
Marshall Faulk was a master of the juke
Barry Sanders could juke, but wasn't as good at it as Marshall
Marshall Faulk could make great cuts, but nothing like Barry
I'm still not sure why we're feeling the need to debate the realistic possibility of juking two or more defenders with one fake.
Ronnie Brown 23
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Originally posted by taurran
Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Originally posted by taurran
Quick Cut isn't a move. It's just the ability of a HB to make cuts without losing speed.
Juke is an actual move/roll by the player.
Other than that I agree.
by GLB definition, that is what quick cut is. Howeve IRL, IMO a cut is definately a move and it is a different move than a juke.
IMO
Barry Sanders was a master of making cut moves
Marshall Faulk was a master of the juke
Barry Sanders could juke, but wasn't as good at it as Marshall
Marshall Faulk could make great cuts, but nothing like Barry
I'm still not sure why we're feeling the need to debate the realistic possibility of juking two or more defenders with one fake.
...it virtually never happens. If you wanna show replays of that, I'll show you replays of a 200 lb corner jacking up a runningback and forcing a fumble. Then I expect that my corners will be able to force fumbles regularly.
Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Originally posted by taurran
Quick Cut isn't a move. It's just the ability of a HB to make cuts without losing speed.
Juke is an actual move/roll by the player.
Other than that I agree.
by GLB definition, that is what quick cut is. Howeve IRL, IMO a cut is definately a move and it is a different move than a juke.
IMO
Barry Sanders was a master of making cut moves
Marshall Faulk was a master of the juke
Barry Sanders could juke, but wasn't as good at it as Marshall
Marshall Faulk could make great cuts, but nothing like Barry
I'm still not sure why we're feeling the need to debate the realistic possibility of juking two or more defenders with one fake.
...it virtually never happens. If you wanna show replays of that, I'll show you replays of a 200 lb corner jacking up a runningback and forcing a fumble. Then I expect that my corners will be able to force fumbles regularly.
Edited by Ronnie Brown 23 on Jul 8, 2009 09:53:50
taurran
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Originally posted by Ronnie Brown 23
Originally posted by taurran
Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Originally posted by taurran
Quick Cut isn't a move. It's just the ability of a HB to make cuts without losing speed.
Juke is an actual move/roll by the player.
Other than that I agree.
by GLB definition, that is what quick cut is. Howeve IRL, IMO a cut is definately a move and it is a different move than a juke.
IMO
Barry Sanders was a master of making cut moves
Marshall Faulk was a master of the juke
Barry Sanders could juke, but wasn't as good at it as Marshall
Marshall Faulk could make great cuts, but nothing like Barry
I'm still not sure why we're feeling the need to debate the realistic possibility of juking two or more defenders with one fake.
...it virtually never happens.
That's a piss poor response. "Virtually never happens" isn't applicable. By changing the rules of the game, it's been made "impossible".
Originally posted by taurran
Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Originally posted by taurran
Quick Cut isn't a move. It's just the ability of a HB to make cuts without losing speed.
Juke is an actual move/roll by the player.
Other than that I agree.
by GLB definition, that is what quick cut is. Howeve IRL, IMO a cut is definately a move and it is a different move than a juke.
IMO
Barry Sanders was a master of making cut moves
Marshall Faulk was a master of the juke
Barry Sanders could juke, but wasn't as good at it as Marshall
Marshall Faulk could make great cuts, but nothing like Barry
I'm still not sure why we're feeling the need to debate the realistic possibility of juking two or more defenders with one fake.
...it virtually never happens.
That's a piss poor response. "Virtually never happens" isn't applicable. By changing the rules of the game, it's been made "impossible".
Rage Kinard
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Originally posted by Ronnie Brown 23
...it virtually never happens.
I wouldn't say it virtually never happens, but it happens a lot less frequently than it was happening in GLB. Maybe 1-3 times a game, and it usually happens when defenders are in close proximity to each other and are close to the HB.
...it virtually never happens.
I wouldn't say it virtually never happens, but it happens a lot less frequently than it was happening in GLB. Maybe 1-3 times a game, and it usually happens when defenders are in close proximity to each other and are close to the HB.
taurran
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Originally posted by Ronnie Brown 23
Originally posted by taurran
Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Originally posted by taurran
Quick Cut isn't a move. It's just the ability of a HB to make cuts without losing speed.
Juke is an actual move/roll by the player.
Other than that I agree.
by GLB definition, that is what quick cut is. Howeve IRL, IMO a cut is definately a move and it is a different move than a juke.
IMO
Barry Sanders was a master of making cut moves
Marshall Faulk was a master of the juke
Barry Sanders could juke, but wasn't as good at it as Marshall
Marshall Faulk could make great cuts, but nothing like Barry
I'm still not sure why we're feeling the need to debate the realistic possibility of juking two or more defenders with one fake.
...it virtually never happens. If you wanna show replays of that, I'll show you replays of a 200 lb corner jacking up a runningback and forcing a fumble. Then I expect that my corners will be able to force fumbles regularly.
That's a poor rationalization. Just because something is rare doesn't mean you change the sim so it makes it impossible altogether. Just because NFL players rarely reverse pancake other players every play, doesn't mean it should be impossible to do so in the sim.
You're saying that just because players don't do something every game or every play that it should be IMPOSSIBLE to do in the sim.
Your lack of logical though process is astounding...
Originally posted by taurran
Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Originally posted by taurran
Quick Cut isn't a move. It's just the ability of a HB to make cuts without losing speed.
Juke is an actual move/roll by the player.
Other than that I agree.
by GLB definition, that is what quick cut is. Howeve IRL, IMO a cut is definately a move and it is a different move than a juke.
IMO
Barry Sanders was a master of making cut moves
Marshall Faulk was a master of the juke
Barry Sanders could juke, but wasn't as good at it as Marshall
Marshall Faulk could make great cuts, but nothing like Barry
I'm still not sure why we're feeling the need to debate the realistic possibility of juking two or more defenders with one fake.
...it virtually never happens. If you wanna show replays of that, I'll show you replays of a 200 lb corner jacking up a runningback and forcing a fumble. Then I expect that my corners will be able to force fumbles regularly.
That's a poor rationalization. Just because something is rare doesn't mean you change the sim so it makes it impossible altogether. Just because NFL players rarely reverse pancake other players every play, doesn't mean it should be impossible to do so in the sim.
You're saying that just because players don't do something every game or every play that it should be IMPOSSIBLE to do in the sim.
Your lack of logical though process is astounding...
taurran
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Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Originally posted by Ronnie Brown 23
...it virtually never happens.
I wouldn't say it virtually never happens, but it happens a lot less frequently than it was happening in GLB. Maybe 1-3 times a game, and it usually happens when defenders are in close proximity to each other and are close to the HB.
Again, that's no reason to hard code it into the sim so it's actually impossible to do.
Originally posted by Ronnie Brown 23
...it virtually never happens.
I wouldn't say it virtually never happens, but it happens a lot less frequently than it was happening in GLB. Maybe 1-3 times a game, and it usually happens when defenders are in close proximity to each other and are close to the HB.
Again, that's no reason to hard code it into the sim so it's actually impossible to do.
Rage Kinard
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Originally posted by taurran
Again, that's no reason to hard code it into the sim so it's actually impossible to do.
Agreed, and I said the same thing in my first post in the thread.
Again, that's no reason to hard code it into the sim so it's actually impossible to do.
Agreed, and I said the same thing in my first post in the thread.
ron2288
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Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by AngryDragon
Those dead zones for fakes should also be key zones for good tacklers vs poor tacklers. A good tackler should be able to wrapup a HB from this angle and roll him to the ground but a poor tackler should only push him off his path a bit imo.
Oh shit...
Tackling from the front requires mostly strength, with some tackling ability, while tackling from the back requires almost all tackling ability, and little strength, with a gradient scale between them.
Mind = Blown
Actually, would be very easy to implement. Just have a "tackle from front" ability formula, and a "tackle from behind" ability formula, and average between them with a coefficient based on velocity vector differences.
if strenght is going to mean something when a player tackles some then there is hope for this guy
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1394689
Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by AngryDragon
Those dead zones for fakes should also be key zones for good tacklers vs poor tacklers. A good tackler should be able to wrapup a HB from this angle and roll him to the ground but a poor tackler should only push him off his path a bit imo.
Oh shit...
Tackling from the front requires mostly strength, with some tackling ability, while tackling from the back requires almost all tackling ability, and little strength, with a gradient scale between them.
Mind = Blown
Actually, would be very easy to implement. Just have a "tackle from front" ability formula, and a "tackle from behind" ability formula, and average between them with a coefficient based on velocity vector differences.
if strenght is going to mean something when a player tackles some then there is hope for this guy
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1394689
Edited by ron2288 on Jul 8, 2009 10:43:38
bovineblitzkrieg
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I don't see this as a problem at all. If you have to fake multiple defenders at a time, you're probably not going to get a big gain anyways. Big plays typically come when blocking is good and you''ve only got one guy to beat. That type of play should be unaffected.
guess you all saw this?
Uploaded to test server to test...
Originally posted by Bort
The Fake/Juke idea and tackle idea discussed on the live site earlier today:
- Vision cone in front of ball carrier, harder to fake the further from center the defender is (one per tick thing removed)
- Tackling from the front requires more strength, while tackling from behind requires more tackling, and a gradation between depending on angle. Interesting idea; I want to see how it works.
Uploaded to test server to test...
Originally posted by Bort
The Fake/Juke idea and tackle idea discussed on the live site earlier today:
- Vision cone in front of ball carrier, harder to fake the further from center the defender is (one per tick thing removed)
- Tackling from the front requires more strength, while tackling from behind requires more tackling, and a gradation between depending on angle. Interesting idea; I want to see how it works.
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