Warrior General Games

Originally posted by _OSIRIS_
Who wants to build the best possible CB and give up a 70% target completion rate? This is not nor should be Madden.
A premier CB giving up 70% competition rate? Good CBs usually hold receivers to 50% or below.

I have noticed that games are a bit more lopsided over the last 2 seasons than have been in the past 10. Sure teams arent scoring 55 points a game on both sides but a lot of games are just good teams blowing away the competition now and not a ton of good teams.

I get that we dont want bonkers AA offenses but i also dont want a lot of poor results either. My superstar qb has been hugely unimpressive through pick up games now in the middle of journeyman. Sure you may claim thats because offensive gameplanning from cpu sucks but so does defensive gameplanning. Players are just horrid.

Originally posted by _OSIRIS_
I said DCs work harder than OCs or anyone else on a coaching staff. It's a fact. How would I know? Well I just spent 80+% of my gameplan time on defense, as always. I bet Myrik just did the same. Go play some Madden on easy you might prefer that. I don't want that lazy ass OP shit.

I suppose you want the G to pancake the DT every play. The WR to make miraculous triple teamed catches over 3 beautifully built high deletion DBs every play. A HB to just maul the 85 power tackling, brickwall, Monster Hitting LB.

Well how about the guys spending tons of money boosting their defensive players just to watch them not able to do anything because someone wants random offensive plays to pick up (x) amount of yards against against every defensive call because it sounds kind of good.

To the competitive coordinators a good game gets your heart thumping. The drama of finishing a drive against a great defense. Te agony of guessing wrong and leaving an unexpected opening or a door you thought would be left wide open was completely slammed shut. All the money spent and nights of little sleep should be for nothing because someone who doesn't really play wants (x).

You yes you are the DC of Phoenix but all I see is refurbished game plans of your's truly being used. DCing is pretty easy huh?

Being a DC is 10x more work than OC and way more time consuming. OC's can run the same combos (and most do) every game without much fear, while I have to get headaches trying to figure ways to break or slow down the BS.

Then I run into this and no one will give me an answer or a 2nd thought because it benefits offense:

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
Why does the ROLB on 3-4 Tiger Blitz not follow through anymore when its a run?

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/560185/1038313
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/560185/1039685
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/558945/753146
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/554861/379289
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/560185/1038675
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/560185/1038864
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/560185/1040173
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/559544/859944
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/554974/1083074

He literally takes himself out of the play and has no reason to run away from it when it's not even a counter, for that matter. In the past the LB would still run blitz and had a shot at catching the HB, now he just runs right into the OL.

Like why does this work differently now after all these seasons? This used to be the best deterrent to run counters... you know, a paper to its rock, while still giving you a shot at pressuring the QB.

Also, passing is working just fine in Vet as far as I've seen. If you are pass heavy, then expect me as a DC to key into that and tag my plays accordingly. No more of that triple covered miracle catch bs. If anything, blitzing at Vet needs boosted and has for a long time. I like that we can finally get some Int's on defense, however I think HB's still fumble too much no matter who says differently. Just my opinion.

The other thing about AA people forget is they were a high pace team. When you throw so much, you gets tons of incompletions and don't move the clock much. This leads to less time of possession and more overall plays for both teams. GE's Empire was the opposite and would use GL/short runs to control the clock and keep the score low so his turnover prone defense could takeover.

This is what the sim was like in S25. Both AA and Dream were the two highest scoring teams that season. yet, the score was nothing crazy: https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/462771

We used our rushing attack to control the clock and were able to eek out the win. People are saying passing was OP, but tell me where. If you had LB/SS covers to match with Polar Bear, and CBs good at man coverage, then you certainly could compete. Rob is just the GOAT coach, which is why he had crazy success with HOF before AA. The only thing that was OP was his building skills, lol. better yet, look how much better the sim looked back then.

I won't go through the whole game, but this is just from the 1st quarter alone:
TE Drive vs TE smother(Revis deflects pass) - https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/462771/1823078
Post Go vs Man Base(Pass incomplete in 1on1 coverage) - https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/462771/1823102
HB Pressure vs Man Base(Pass thrown into double coverage, inc) - https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/462771/1823193
WR posts vs C1 TE SMother(Bad throw) - https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/462771/1823205
TE Drive vs C1 Man Under(pass deflect by Tecmo Deion) - https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/462771/1823218
TE Drive vs TE Smother(Pass deflected by Revis) - https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/462771/1823311
Post Go vs Man Base(Pass into double coverage, inc) - https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/462771/1823465
WR Posts vs Te SMother(Pass into double coverage, inc) - https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/462771/1823477

Solid builds absolutely could play defense. Smart defensive playcalling absolutely could cause them issues. All while passing wasn't nerfed, and the sim ran smooth. Shocking! If great CB builds are deflecting passes, that's fine, but not RNG nerfs.

Here is how three QBs rate vs all time career NFL QBs, 2 Vet 1 Pro...
GLB

Passer Rating
Eli Manning 105
Aaron Rodgers 103.8
Russell Wilson 98.8
Money Shot 98.5
Tyler Wesley 97.8

Yards per Game
Tyler Wesley 348.4
Money Shot 316.8
Eli Manning 311.2
Drew Brees 282.9
Matthew Stafford 278.04

34.5 average Vet team score per game.
Most common all time NFL score 20-17

Originally posted by _OSIRIS_
Here is how three QBs rate vs all time career NFL QBs, 2 Vet 1 Pro...
GLB

Passer Rating
Eli Manning 105
Aaron Rodgers 103.8
Russell Wilson 98.8
Money Shot 98.5
Tyler Wesley 97.8

Yards per Game
Tyler Wesley 348.4
Money Shot 316.8
Eli Manning 311.2
Drew Brees 282.9
Matthew Stafford 278.04

34.5 average Vet team score per game.
Most common all time NFL score 20-17



They don't have CPU teams in the NFL though. In human vs human coached games passing stats take a dive.

For comparisons sake, let's compare how three HBs rate vs all time career NFL HBs, 2 Vet 1 Pro...

Rushing yards per carry
Derek Jeter 7.7
Brent Hammond 6.5
Milk Shake 5.9
Jim Brown 5.2
Gal Sayers 5.0
Barry Sanders 5.0

Yards per Game
Derek Jeter 294.9
Milk Shake 270.6
Brent Hammond 226.3
Jim Brown 104.3
Barry Sanders 99.8
Terrell Davis 97.5

Like bhall said earlier, it's a bit pointless to think GLB will ever be the NFL. By this metric, rushing is massively OP. We have 10+ HBs who more than double the best passing yards/game in history, and who carry the ball all game without getting tired. Should rushing be nerfed? No, because agents want a dynamic game. The answer is to buff defense, fix AI in the secondary, add more plays or just give us a GLB1 style editor for DCs.

I think it is a lot of debate about absolutely nothing. For what it's worth I think CPU teams call way better defensive plays than most human teams we play.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
Being a DC is 10x more work than OC and way more time consuming. OC's can run the same combos (and most do) every game without much fear, while I have to get headaches trying to figure ways to break or slow down the BS.



personally, i game plan about 20-30 mins for any big game and 15-20 of those mins are on the offensive gameplan. i dont wanna give away how ive been setting up my defensive GP but its pretty systematic and just takes 2 mins per formation using scout tool, about 10 mins tops.

honestly, lazy defensive gameplans seem to still do pretty well while a rushed offensive gameplan can get completely shut down (which may be part of the reason so many people are saying defense is OP and passing is so hard lol)

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar


Like why does this work differently now after all these seasons? This used to be the best deterrent to counter run plays... you know, a paper to its rock, while still giving you a shot at pressuring the QB.



yes i noticed those issues in our game. for one, trips pitch weak was always the counter to 3-4 tiger blitz vs 3wr (pitch strong isnt bad either) so some of those times even though the ROLB ran a crazy path it wouldnt have mattered much either way, but yes tiger should have demolished our trips counter runs but the ROLB messed up the path. not sure why that happened but i would assume the pathing setting would be the culprit (maybe its on aggressive and needs to be on balanced? idk)

Originally posted by BoDiddley

People are saying passing was OP, but tell me where. If you had LB/SS covers to match with Polar Bear, and CBs good at man coverage, then you certainly could compete. Rob is just the GOAT coach, which is why he had crazy success with HOF before AA. The only thing that was OP was his building skills, lol.


disagree. again, rob and i are good friends and i do regard him as the best coach in the game but almost all of the s* builds he used were done with a committee of fairforever, bhall, jfbueno, and myself. i know all of the player builds the HOF and AA team used and they are very much in line with player builds that teams like BB, BSB, GOD, etc, use today.

when BB played AA a few seasons back, i spent roughly 2 hours on the defensive gameplan, scouring the best possible plays to use vs their 2wr chalice and 4wr passes. even with 2 defenders on the WB (TE) and both WR1 and WR2 vs chalice they still averaged over 50% completion rate and the same for 3wr and 4wr passing.

so to summarize, 2 hours spent by a good DC, some of the better CBs in the game matched up specifically vs their WRs, and the best possible defensive playcalls for the exact offensive playcalls we knew were coming, yet in 3 games vs AA that season, our team still gave up 50 pts per game vs the EXACT SAME OFFENSIVE GAMEPLAN. lol.

yes rob had a great concept, great builds, great default gameplans, but think about how awful that is for a concept of a game? build a team, setup default offensive gameplan, score 50 pts a game regardless of how hard the other team tries or how well they build, repeat.

that is why the play tag bonuses and man coverage improvements were implemented into the game and the result is exactly as it should be. last season balanced had to adapt to not being able to run outside at all, now passing teams have to adapt to the defensive changes.

Originally posted by _OSIRIS_
I mean wtf do you guys want? Go back to passes being unstoppable and DBs not doing what they built to do? Back to the double team and triple team auto receptions? If I know you are going to pass I would expect very nicely built DBs to be able to stop it with in the right play. I mean force me into a 4 man front, make me keep 3 LBs on the field, if you just want to spam mindless passes then don't expect to just roll through me. If you just throw deep passes to WR1 and your TE you make it way too easy, and it should be easy. Rock, paper scissors. If I know you only pick rock every single time I'm going to pick paper everytime.

exactly. ive been saying it for 30 odd seasons and this is the closest we've ever had to balance or a "rock/paper/scissors" effect. theres plenty of room for improvement but saying "passing is broke plz fix" and posting plays from when CBs had 20 bal and were falling on their face each play to show how WRs "should" perform against defenses is not the answer lol

Originally posted by Sov.
when BB played AA a few seasons back, i spent roughly 2 hours on the defensive gameplan, scouring the best possible plays to use vs their 2wr chalice and 4wr passes. even with 2 defenders on the WB (TE) and both WR1 and WR2 vs chalice they still averaged over 50% completion rate and the same for 3wr and 4wr passing.

so to summarize, 2 hours spent by a good DC, some of the better CBs in the game matched up specifically vs their WRs, and the best possible defensive playcalls for the exact offensive playcalls we knew were coming, yet in 3 games vs AA that season, our team still gave up 50 pts per game vs the EXACT SAME OFFENSIVE GAMEPLAN. lol.
You're talking about S29 when the balance change was implemented and broke the sim. When CBs were falling down and HBs staggering in a drunken stupor. No one wants that sim back, what some want is what we had before that season. That's why I showed how the sim looked in S25.

Here's the scores from S28, right before balance was wrecked.

AA vs Kentucky 37-28 https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/512624
AA vs Mystery Men 33-21 https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/512776
AA vs Mystery Men 31-23 https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/512052
AA vs Empire 37-17 https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/511899
AA vs Deadites 35-34 https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/511253
AA vs GoD 34-24 https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/511093

The last 6 games of their season AA didn't crack 40 points and every game was competitive. This is why I ask how passing was OP. You could compete with AA, and scores were much closer than what they are now among top teams in general. Denali was efficient though and able to pull out close games.

Best way to slowdown 4WR deep throws is to go 3 deep. Maybe some defenses didn't invest in zone awareness for their safeties, I can only guess. But we held them to 38 points despite this recent notion that passing was OP. All these teams listed held them under 40 points too.

Originally posted by
yes rob had a great concept, great builds, great default gameplans, but think about how awful that is for a concept of a game? build a team, setup default offensive gameplan, score 50 pts a game regardless of how hard the other team tries or how well they build, repeat.

that is why the play tag bonuses and man coverage improvements were implemented into the game and the result is exactly as it should be. last season balanced had to adapt to not being able to run outside at all, now passing teams have to adapt to the defensive changes.
Again, good defenses could stop AA from getting 50 points. Great builds could disrupt what they tried to do. Games against AA were far more competitive than what we're seeing against BB in Vet or Whoville in Pro.

And I like the tag feature. Doesn't change the fact that passing is still broken though. Defense isn't causing these issues, its the sim. It's receivers having steps on a DB not mattering anymore, is SP investment in something like CiT not doing what it's supposed to do even when single covered and relatively open. It's the endless passing nerfs implemented to mask the balance change over the past few seasons.

Most of AA's domination was from 4 wr passing and 100 sprint/quick/condition/rec hands builds. That was unstoppable because the targets were so quick to get to their spot and had the hands to make just about any catch.

But that wasnt the case for every build. Things could have been done to slow up speedsters. Another huge problem is all the underneath catches. For whatever reason Cbs have always gotten lost on underthrows. Part of the reason TE's are nearly unstoppable in single coverage against the ss. The underthrow all day gets ya. TE crosses one of the most used plays of all time kills due to underneath coverage being shotty at best.

Again, averages getting spit out as justification. I don't care what they average out to... Playing horrid teams helps those numbers dramatically

My QBR against bad teams is probably 120, against good humans it's probably 60... (averaging out to ~100 right now) That's too big a swing IMO

I care what QBs do when a good human goes against a good human... Currently comp % for passing teams is in the 40%-50%ish range MAXvagaibst good passing teams. Good pass defenses can hold other good passing teams around 40%, UNLESS that team has a dangerous rushing attack. I shouldn't have to run the ball 30 times a game to have a +50% comp% against a good team. Other than us, teams like Detroit and Logzilla are taking major hits this season trying to pull a running game out of their ass, just trying to keep their passing game effective... it's hard to watch honestly

Don't let facts and numbers sway your opinion. The sim is constantly changing. That is why I just can't figure out why so many put all their eggs into one basket.

One minute the offense is underpowered. Pull up a few numbers and then it is overpowered. I had to adjust to that aweful pass every play but short yardage now I had to adjust again. I will have to adjust again this offseason when they make passing stupid overpowered again.

So basically all this arguing is passing in Pro?

In Vet it seems to be working just fine, like as in seasons ago before things all OP either way.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
So basically all this arguing is passing in Pro?

In Vet it seems to be working just fine, like as in seasons ago before things all OP either way.

Should be interesting in more than just vet. My superstar qb is rolling out with more qbrs in the 30s than over 70.