Warrior General Games

Originally posted by jrry32
Originally posted by Bort

Originally posted by tautology



It should however be noted that many of the best "elusives" don't use elusive running style.



That would make them more "speed" or "combo" at this point, then, correct?

Give me an example of what you consider a "true" elusive build (just approx numbers, not an actual player) and I will test it.

This would be my feeling for a TRUE elusive:
100 speed
105 agility
68 carrying
61 strength
68 vision
Points in elusive SAs

Higher carrying...

edit: on second thought, meh, it should be ok in a perfect world. for now, it really isn't tho.

Originally posted by Bort
That would make them more "speed" or "combo" at this point, then, correct?

Give me an example of what you consider a "true" elusive build (just approx numbers, not an actual player) and I will test it.

I think a lot of agents consider an elusiveback build is something with either an equal amount of speed and agility or slightly more agility than speed.

Originally posted by jrry32
Originally posted by Bort

Originally posted by jdbolick


The one thing we need to be careful about is that elusives are generally very speedy, so giving them too much of an advantage means instant touchdowns instead of just another 5 yards gained.

+1

It's not like they never gain yards currently.

I personally like the idea earlier of having agility help you make more fakes because it would make agility more important(or as important) as speed for an elusive runner like it is IRL as well as making cutbacks downfield(especially when only 1-2 defenders are left in front of you) happen more often. I mean elusive HBs never do the stop and start cutbacks when they have 1 defender next to them left with a chance to tackle them, if they made that move, they would score.

Vision should also help you make those cuts and cutbacks making it important as well for elusive, power and combo runners.(since cutbacks and cuts would help all)

Originally posted by jdbolick

A HB can break tackles without investing in SAs, so your analogy fails. Fakes are a specialized skill. I really think your concern about agility is better addressed simply by the better pathing that Deathblade mentioned. If HBs get better about moving to keep distance from defenders while still moving upfield, then agility has great value in making cuts without losing much speed.

You don't even realize you are proving his point....Power backs can break tackles easily with just high strength and carrying without SAs....Elusive backs can rarely complete a fake without juke or head fake points.

Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by tautology


It should however be noted that many of the best "elusives" don't use elusive running style.



That would make them more "speed" or "combo" at this point, then, correct?

Give me an example of what you consider a "true" elusive build (just approx numbers, not an actual player) and I will test it.

I would encourage you to use Hulk Blazing or D-League HB (or talk to their agents) as they know much better than I do

I can PM you a couple if you like though...

Originally posted by MRIGUY
Originally posted by jdbolick


A HB can break tackles without investing in SAs, so your analogy fails. Fakes are a specialized skill. I really think your concern about agility is better addressed simply by the better pathing that Deathblade mentioned. If HBs get better about moving to keep distance from defenders while still moving upfield, then agility has great value in making cuts without losing much speed.

You don't even realize you are proving his point....Power backs can break tackles easily with just high strength and carrying without SAs....Elusive backs can rarely complete a fake without juke or head fake points.

Exactly.

Originally posted by Bort
+1

It's not like they never gain yards currently.

But they also run the sweeps and have 4 yd losses a lot as well Bort...When do you see PBs taking 4 yd losses numerous times a game?

if you want Bort, I can give you the build of a couple of the best elusive backs in GLB (imo). D League HB mentioned by Taut is one of them - crazy would agree no problem I'm sure as long as it was just you that I shared it with. Anthrax Jones on Lincoln the other (jamz again wouldn't mind).

Originally posted by tautology
True, I am just suggesting that some sort of interesting effects, like a buff to Spin ability on highly elusive running, might actually makes elusives fun and effective.

And it would not require a lot of re-coding for pathing.

Just a thought.

Adding incentives like a buff to spin for people on Super Elusive, while it would make it more enticing, doesn't fix the main problems. The main problems being...that super elusive is undesirable for elusive backs due to pathing.

Originally posted by tautology
Originally posted by Bort

Originally posted by tautology



It should however be noted that many of the best "elusives" don't use elusive running style.



That would make them more "speed" or "combo" at this point, then, correct?

Give me an example of what you consider a "true" elusive build (just approx numbers, not an actual player) and I will test it.

I would encourage you to use Hulk Blazing or D-League HB (or talk to their agents) as they know much better than I do

I can PM you a couple if you like though...


D League HB isn't the typical elusive. I know that much.

Originally posted by Bort
+1

It's not like they never gain yards currently.

But the problem is how elusive backs do vs equal matched teams. Tune into when the blaze play MPHD on day 37, I can almost bet Elusive backs won't have but 5 touches all game, and the only way that will happen is if that RNG allows for the HB to get targeted on a 50 yrd bomb. (1in 100 chance to get a hb targeted in this sim I know ). Elusive backs are essentially removed from the game plan when playing another equal team. This is what you need to realize. There is no 5 yrd gain with elusive backs. It is Remove from game plan type roles for these players in this current sim.















I mean when the blaze slaughter MPHD

Originally posted by jrry32
This would be my feeling for a TRUE elusive:
100 speed
105 agility
68 carrying
61 strength
68 vision
Points in elusive SAs

Slippery & quick feet type VA's, I'm assuming? Maybe the agility and/or speed AVA's?

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=982819&pbp_id=13018282

^ Unnerfable!

Originally posted by tautology
Originally posted by Bort

Originally posted by tautology



It should however be noted that many of the best "elusives" don't use elusive running style.



That would make them more "speed" or "combo" at this point, then, correct?

Give me an example of what you consider a "true" elusive build (just approx numbers, not an actual player) and I will test it.

I would encourage you to use Hulk Blazing or D-League HB (or talk to their agents) as they know much better than I do

I can PM you a couple if you like though...


crazy posted something like this yesterday:

70 strength, 78 speed, 78 agility, 68 carrying, 48 vision, 48 confidence, 48 stamina

Originally posted by MRIGUY
You don't even realize you are proving his point....Power backs can break tackles easily with just high strength and carrying without SAs....Elusive backs can rarely complete a fake without juke or head fake points.
They're not supposed to. Elusive =/= fake. Elusive backs should elude tacklers by keeping as much distance from them as possible while trying to continue gaining yards. There are tons of HBs in the NFL who are laughably bad at trying to juke defenders, but succeed by making cuts to create space.


Originally posted by DL24
crazy posted something like this yesterday:

70 strength, 78 speed, 78 agility, 68 carrying, 48 vision, 48 confidence, 48 stamina
That's pretty close to my HB, and he definitely isn't elusive.