Warrior General Games

With the ebb and flow of teams and players in the game at assorted levels, a locked leauge system is not fluid enough to move with it.


Heheh with the number nerds in all games like this, any system will be exploitable. They will find a way.

Originally posted by Snakebite99
I'll say it again, we dont need to make this so damn complicated that you need a PhD to understand it. We've already added enough complexity to this game, let's work on making it simple and fun again... please.



I like it fine , maybe some will see it as too basic ? I've said before we don't need VA's til lvl 38-40 somewhere in there. Speed up maturity is the key , too many different levels have been built on too many different building planes.

By that I mean you have dots getting built too many different ways based on prior changes to the game if that makes sense ? What worked 2 season ago doesn't anymore and then you have to shift to something else and I really believe that plays a big part in disparity of builds that have nothing to do with right build or wrong.

guys please look at my simplistic idea on page one. there is no exploiting it. everyone gets competition. and only good teams get to the uncaps...

please tell me what is wrong with it.

on a cell so sorry for the bad format.

Originally posted by DONKEIDIC
guys please look at my simplistic idea on page one. there is no exploiting it. everyone gets competition. and only good teams get to the uncaps...

please tell me what is wrong with it.

on a cell so sorry for the bad format.

Because the league structure has very little to do with the lack of competition at lower levels... no one cares about early seasons because players are so specialized due to cap building that entire seasons are spent working on a single attribute. For example, my level 39 FB is still capping his 3rd attribute... it'll be another season or two before he raises his 4th attribute high enough to actually pull the build together and start being enjoyable to watch. This is a massive problem with GLB.

I don't see anything in your suggestion that even addresses that problem. Having two teams of imbalanced players going at it isn't really all that enjoyable to watch either FWIW. Cap builders will be the same age as regular builders, so we'll still see retarded scores and advanced agents vs novice agents, in your system.

Teams have to be assigned a level and teams of similar levels need to play one another for some level of parity to exist. Then you have to try and stem all the gutting bullshit that ends up making leagues lol (like my off-season phase suggestion). Finally you have to make the game more interesting, so that people actually care what's going on... by speeding up player development speed or by giving advanced agents equally viable ways to build, outside of abusing ALGs.

255-0

Popcorn

RageQuit

Originally posted by Warlock
Because the league structure has very little to do with the lack of competition at lower levels... no one cares about early seasons because players are so specialized due to cap building that entire seasons are spent working on a single attribute. For example, my level 39 FB is still capping his 3rd attribute... it'll be another season or two before he raises his 4th attribute high enough to actually pull the build together and start being enjoyable to watch. This is a massive problem with GLB.

I don't see anything in your suggestion that even addresses that problem. Having two teams of imbalanced players going at it isn't really all that enjoyable to watch either FWIW. Cap builders will be the same age as regular builders, so we'll still see retarded scores and advanced agents vs novice agents, in your system.

Teams have to be assigned a level and teams of similar levels need to play one another for some level of parity to exist. Then you have to try and stem all the gutting bullshit that ends up making leagues lol (like my off-season phase suggestion). Finally you have to make the game more interesting, so that people actually care what's going on... by speeding up player development speed or by giving advanced agents equally viable ways to build, outside of abusing ALGs.

I think you are missing the point just as everyone else has. The point is teams that are building a certain way will end up with other teams building the same way. Teams that want to be competitive off the bat will end up with like teams. Same for everyone else.

Teams that are building for the future and do not care, will not be competitive in the first season. They will suck. They will be put with other teams that are competitive in the same way. Teams that want to win right away like Pee wees will have 7 seasons of fun, along with their pro career, whatever that may be.

So, in essence you have many choices. As we have now you can choose to not care about the early seasons and go to an uncompetititive team to build your player for the future. Teams that want to win out of the gates get to win and be on top for 7 seasons and build their fame in that way. Non-boosters get to filter to the bottom with each other beating your super cap builds along the way.

No matter what, the games will be close during the entire life of each player..

Originally posted by DONKEIDIC
I think you are missing the point just as everyone else has. The point is teams that are building a certain way will end up with other teams building the same way. Teams that want to be competitive off the bat will end up with like teams. Same for everyone else.

Teams that are building for the future and do not care, will not be competitive in the first season. They will suck. They will be put with other teams that are competitive in the same way. Teams that want to win right away like Pee wees will have 7 seasons of fun, along with their pro career, whatever that may be.

So, in essence you have many choices. As we have now you can choose to not care about the early seasons and go to an uncompetititive team to build your player for the future. Teams that want to win out of the gates get to win and be on top for 7 seasons and build their fame in that way. Non-boosters get to filter to the bottom with each other beating your super cap builds along the way.

No matter what, the games will be close during the entire life of each player..

Maybe you're not explaining that point well enough... the only thing resembling what you suggest, is trying to weed out the different types of teams via a one time season record from the 1st season (then go back to the utterly failed promotion/demotion system). There's a huge, gaping exploit waiting to happen in that system TBBH... make a team, suck balls for the first season, sign all your cap-built agents the following season and then dominate until you finally reach equal competition through promotion. In the ladder system that I suggested, teams would be reshuffled each season, according to their team talent and success.

The promotion/demotion system will never work in GLB, players just have way too much control. This is why I fully support a ladder system, while not perfect, it will definitely create more parity than the promotion/demotion system. Most games use a ladder system, because it's a tried and true method... you have to beat the best to be the best. This won't be the case for the first season of a ladder, but with a decent ranking formula, the best will eventually rise to the top. Unfortunately, the ranking formula and the actual ladder need to be kept secret from the GLB populous, which will result in some whining by people... but it's the price you pay for an adaptive league system that breeds competition. Another key component is locking players into each season (with minimal allowances only), this will also result in whining by some, but again it's a necessary evil.

Just to show you a little more in-depth what I'm talking about with how a ladder ranking might work, here's a little example...

First thing is first, each player should be given a talent grade, based on SP value and position. Bort should know what the maximum SP value for a position/level should be (think best build possible) and he should also know what the worst possible SP value is for a position/level (think worst build possible)... a player with the most possible SP value would grade out at 100, a player with the lowest possible SP value would grade out at a 1. These grades would factor into a team's grade.

Next, each position on a roster should carry a weighting. QBs are more valuable than FBs and so on. So a FB might only add 85% of his rating to the team's grade, while a QB might add 120% of his. These numbers would have to be hammered out and tested, so that teams that are relatively equal in talent would rank close.

The final step would be factoring in the team's success. Again you give team's grades based on record, a team that hasn't lost would grade out at 100 and a team that hasn't won would grade out at a 1. This grade would then modify the team rankings. If for example, a success grade of 50 (average) might give no modifier to the team ranking from talent, while a team that went undefeated might have their ranking grade doubled... it all depends on how much of a variation is needed to keep ties to being anomalies (with thousands of teams, it would have to be a fairly large variation though).

The formula might be something like... A * B * C = D

A = Roster SP value grade
B = Roster positional value grade
C = Roster success grade
D = Team ranking grade

Originally posted by 5STAR
consolidate leagues and quit spreading the user base over some many different options.

Example would be casual and normal....make normal easier to run and remove casual.

Way too many caps...we have a cap for just about every level...serious overkill

Stop adding layers to the game. Each time you add an additional layer it is something the best teams will master creating a bigger gap between the haves and have nots.

You gotta ask yourself...
Do we really needs coaches? Because it will be one thing teams must have to win

Do we really need 55 man rosters? Most average teams can not field a full team and thus have no shot

Do we really need to increase the energy/morale drain? You are causing more morale spirals making decent games blow outs

Do we really need to add more options to team finances? Another thing great owners will master while the average guy has little chance

AEQ and VAs are another thing that kills competition. The best dots always have the best VAs and AEQ and that leads to blowouts. If you want to have VAs and AEQ you need to cap it at like 30 VAs and 1-2 AEQ pieces or the normal user will NEVER compete.

ALGs force dots to be built in a way that is counter intuitive.....if you do not train correctly or hit high caps early enough you will never compete. Plus building in this manor make the lower leagues worthless. People do not want to build a dot for a full calendar year to spend 2-3 seasons playing meaningful games but yet ALGs make them do just that.

League structure is a very minor problem to the competition problem. The main cause is there are way too many things for the normal user to keep up with and in result he gets annihilated by teams who can manage everything.

This game has been on a track to cater to the hardcore user for so long it has lead to a few elite teams and 29 others that have no chance in EVERY league.


Spot on - one of the few people to realise that changing the league structure, on its own, will not do much to improve competition.

Originally posted by ryanshaw
Spot on - one of the few people to realise that changing the league structure, on its own, will not do much to improve competition.

But this thread is only about the league structure... Everything else is kind of offtopic.

League structure and player build cycle have to go hand in hand though. Or else it will be like shoving a square box around a larger circular computer tower.

Originally posted by Vortus
What I am thinking is it will increase them as long as a banner is also flying for a region.
A banner seems rather pointless. The strength of the regional format was not just saying you're from "X," but constantly playing against the same collection of teams as you worked your way up the structure. Throwing in a few token games against other teams flying your "banner" doesn't really seem like an adequate replacement.

Originally posted by
Many of the rivalries would be lost if all the teams go their separate ways to different regions. This way, those rivalries could be maintained, along with representing our region.
I'm surprised that you even have any "rivals." I would imagine that the very vast majority of minors teams don't have any, since the implementation of rivalry points was fairly recent. Moreover, I'd be really surprised if those were comparable to the old days where you felt a real connection to a collection of opponents.

Originally posted by
I could think of no other way that would balance things out and increase competition at the same time.
League competitiveness really isn't that hard to handle. The two things you need to do are limit the number of teams, and then group teams properly. All that can easily be achieved in a regional format. Just having close games doesn't seem like it would be enough to get people interested in low level games again. I think you need something people can truly connect with, although it's possible that ship has sailed.


Edit:
Originally posted by DONKEIDIC
I think you are missing the point just as everyone else has.
If everyone on earth keeps missing your "point," then maybe your point isn't a good one. Now stop spamming your suggestion.

Speed up player development and the problem will solve itself.

Is this something Bort has said no to?

Originally posted by Warlock


A new minors pyramid would be created each season. So it would essentially be a capped league. No exploiting this. No signing a non-booster that is level 38/48. These would funnel into the main pyramid at I use season 7 as a time line(it could be altered). At which time the best teams (A+B+C) move into the main pyramid, and all others are sold back.

The free agents from the teams that didn't make the cut would move in to fill in "Pro" teams easing recruitment for teams that need to recruit to stay competitive. We all know how similar the builds of great and mediocre dots are. The main difference is play calling and supporting staff. "Syndicate" teams already have farms teams set up and will not have many of the troubles recruiting. This way teams that have not set up a farms system can continue to stay competitive. They did get there by being a decent Owner/coach...

Not sure if I had said this but promotion/demotion would likely need to be doubled in the minor pyramid.

Here is an example of how I see different teams working:

Regular builders(Pee Wee style):

imo These types build dots for immediate success. They would end up at the top or close to it in this "Capped" League's pyramid in the second season. Then depending on their game planning (un-measurable variable) move up or down. If they move up it is because they deserve to be with better teams if they move down the opposite. Result: Competition.

Cap builders:

These build dots for success at the top of the game. They care the least about the lolminors, and would not even try and be competitive. They would still end up with other teams that are , trying or not, un-competititive) As their build even out the would start working their way to the top. Result: Competition.

non-boosters:

These guys would start out closer to the top of the pyramid. They would lay against like teams, and loose ground every few seasons to boosting teams as they can no longer keep up. Result: Competition.

Etc...

Originally posted by jdbolick

If everyone on earth keeps missing your "point," then maybe your point isn't a good one. Now stop spamming your suggestion.

Seriously you were asked to either give input or stop.

You seem to me, to be one of those guys that is almost intelligent enough to know that no one person has cornered the market on good ideas, but not quite.

Originally posted by 5STAR

ALGs force dots to be built in a way that is counter intuitive.....if you do not train correctly or hit high caps early enough you will never compete. Plus building in this manor make the lower leagues worthless. People do not want to build a dot for a full calendar year to spend 2-3 seasons playing meaningful games but yet ALGs make them do just that.

The biggest thing preventing competition, IMO. The early seasons were fun b/c guys were not trying to max out end builds (for the most part) but trying to win games. ALG's force a different building plan that does not encourage making a competitive player throughout his life cycle. It makes for mixed competition at lower levels and at the top levels too, because there are not enough elite builds to populate even the WL. Most of this is because building a guy is about maxing out math than it is about building a good player.

Fix this building flaw and most of your competition issues work themselves out.

One possible solution is to give a training bonus to majors and minors and eliminating ALG's all together. Would be simple and elegant. It would nerf some extreme builds (getting to a natural 100 in a stat wouldn't be possible anymore). That's the part I like the least in this idea, but it would even the playing field somewhat and give more parity and competition.